Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Large doses of Vitamin C kills Bird Flu |
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Posted: January 02 2006 at 6:31pm |
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ravic
Valued Member Joined: December 31 2005 Status: Offline Points: 11 |
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I'm not questioning the efficacy of Vitamin C as a flu treatment. I'm sure there's compelling evidence for people to make a reasoned decision for its use. I do find a claim that it was used as a cure in 1918 a bit suspicious however. While I recognize this information is ingenuously billed as hearsay ("I heard that..."), the claim itself raises more questions than it answers to support an argument for using Vitamin C. I wonder about the circumstances under which it was taken, because the statement "...when they gave patients 10,000 mg of vitamin C for 3 days, it reduced their symptoms by 85%. Unusually large doses cured them during the Spanish Flu." has the ring of a clinical study performed under a doctor. Vitamin C was not isolated until 1928. As such, in 1918, there could have been no concentrated Vitamin C pills or shots. A doctor would not have given "patients 10,000 mg of vitamin C" with any awareness of that fact. The patient would have been given a "dose" of x-amount of a given food, which in retrospect was found to contain 10,000 mg of Vitamin C. There was precedent for this certainly. Lemons and limes for example, had been used since the early 17th century as a measure against scurvy -- by 1918 there was a long tradition of citrus fruits as a health food. Using food as medicine in 1918 is credible. One must wonder however about the likely form in which 10,000 mg of Vitamin C could have been given to a patient in 1918. A typical list of foods rich in Vitamin C contain under 100 mg of Vitamin C per hundred grams of that food. A lemon for example, contains 40 mg Vitamin C per hundred grams -- which means it would take 25,000 grams of lemon (i.e. 55 pounds) to reach an intake of 10,000 mg Vitamin C. It would take slightly less with oranges; about half as much in broccoli; slightly more in liver. More credible would be foods containing several thousand miligrams of C per hundred -- but such foods tend to be a bit exotic: Tibetan Goji Berry contains 2500 mg per hundred; Camu Camu contains 2800 mg. Not the kind of things I'd expect to find in a hospital pharmacy, or next door at the local greengrocers. Rosehip comes to mind as a very likely candidate. The British during World War II collected and used it on a massive scale in syrup form to replace imported oranges which became unavailable during the U-boat blockade. That said, I can only picture with difficulty a person laid out with flu -- particularly Spanish Flu -- eating 1.1 pounds of the stuff each day to reach 10,000 mg of Vitamin C. I'm not arguing the truth of what anyone may have heard about Vitamin C use in 1918; I am however suggesting that more information is needed before regarding it as a supporting argument for cure or remedy in what may be the life or death situation of a pandemic. I'm also not arguing against using Vitamin C as such. I assume that claims for its efficacy can be responsibly supported by credible facts which will motivate everybody use it.
Edited by ravic |
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Ravic, Thanks so much for the above information!!!
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Joel Benjamin
Valued Member Joined: December 23 2005 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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I went tot he Doctor today and asked her about the avian flu. She said that
they don't wnat peoiple stockpiling drugs becasue tehy might not ge the flu and there wouidl be no drugs for people who did get it. She said noi to worry about thoings you can't contro. She was obviously getting her marching orders for the government. If would seem to me that if people gradually obtained medicines from thier doctors in advance we might be quite well porepared. I told her that ai though the government woudelbotch the job completely and she smiled but would not cough up the Tamiflu. Guess I'll have to go see my old "ccoaker" doc to get a scipt. I don't think she has any real comprehension of what occured in 1918 and what might occur, extremely quickly in this viorus becomes transmissible between humans. If i wanted platitudes I'd go to a shrink. Any doctor out there who can shad any light on ewha the government is advocatging, except to not distribute the drugs until it's too late? I feel great though as I got some valium. |
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Joel, you are correct, the government has issued guidelines for doctors NOT to prescribe Tamiflu unless a patient has a current case of the flu. Most doctors (but not all) will abide by these guidelines. It's a shame and borders on the criminal IMO that HHS & CDC have decreed that we have no right to protect ourselves. Tamiflu was a classic case of "the early bird gets the worm" and late comers are SOL. Your only hope is to get a doctor who is willing to buck the system and empower his/her patients. Good luck. |
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Hmmmm, how could an extremely ill patient in 1918 consume these huge amounts of Vit. C in foods if pill form was not yet conceived? These patients were very weak, nauseated and constantly coughing. Could you ingest mega amounts of food when you're so sick you wanna die? Vit.C in juices, fruits, etc. are very acidic and I would think upset one's stomach severely. One person said it reduced flu SYMPTOMS by 85%, well ok, but that wouldn't be my goal, to merely reduce symptoms. It's the virus I want destroyed.
If you die with 85% less symptoms,...... well ok. As far as I know one's body can only handle so much C the rest is eliminated in your urine. I wouldn't count on C as a cure by any means. I have heard zinc is effective for colds but this is an extremely virulent flu strain, different bird,.........no pun intended. : ) In 1918, the new miracle drug of 1899, aspirin, was taken freely, it reduced one's fever but this did more harm than good. As the fever was reduced, the body's main line of defense, fever which destroys virus, was halted, leaving the virus free reign to devour the host. They were killing themselves, but probably 85% symptom free. BTW, take/administer fever reducers for a temp. of 101.5* to 102* allow your body to heat up to kill off the virus.....God's design,.........Father knows best! Mary Kay RN |
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Concerned
V.I.P. Member Valued Member Joined: December 15 2005 Status: Offline Points: 85 |
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ravic and mary kay are spot on.
Vitamin C will not cure the flu. Vitamin C does (although debated) have potency and it is one of the very few non-drugs that I personally believe in and take in huge quantities (1 gramm up to 5)when I feel a cold coming and sometimes in between. With medications and Vitamin C in an acute state I would be very careful for interactions and harming the kidneys. Its not "much is better" its how and when and not to mix to much to soon. So taking it as a preventive measure just to keep levels high, fine (specially for children or when someone does not feel right but you dont know yet whats coming or not so for the first few hours; since onset of flu is so rapid you will notice). As a cure in an acute infection, no. |
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Individual preparation is mandatory
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Eat Vitamin C food which will help fight infections by producing hydrogen peroxide, which in turn stimulates the production of prostaglandins along with Zinc, these two enhance one another. (Protein, Ester C (vitamin C) and Zinc are all antivirals that will help your body build up resistance. Eat vitamin C-rich foods such as carrots avoid these vitamin C foods: tomatoes and raw green peppers. It helps destroy the process of oxidation. (Do not leave peeled, stand for a long time or overcook)
See Also: 1. 1. Cohen HA, Varsano I, Kahan E, et al. Effectiveness of an herbal preparation containing echinacea, propolis, and vitamin C in preventing respiratory tract infections in children. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2004;158(3):217- 1. Peters EM, Goetzsche JM, Grobbelaar B, et al. Vitamin C supplementation reduces the incidence of postrace symptoms of upper-respiratory-tract infection in ultramarathon runners. Am J Clin Nutr. 1993;57:170–174. Edited by KillerFlu.net |
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Trigger
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Hey Albert: I am with you all the way. Vit C is a great thing. You rock. I'm glad you posted your results. I will certainly be uping my and my families dose. I generally take 1 - 2 K mg daily, when I remember :). I also think that taking acidophilus (sp) is a good thing. I want to keep as much balance in my system as possibly. |
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Trigger
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As a note, I am noticing that no one is commenting on my posts (on supplements), are they helping; if not then I will stop. April My notes on acidophilus:
Low Salt Kimchi is a very healthy food that is an abundant source of natural acidophilus and 70 percent of ones immune system starts with a healthy digestive track! Probiotics (Acidophilus): Studies show that supplements of these "friendly bacteria" may boost immune function, while increasing infection resistance. While the necessary amounts vary according to the condition, it has been shown that a minimum of five billion units be taken daily. Good bacteria: Stimulates the intestine’s immune system and slow growth of infectious organisms in the intestine by regularly eating yogurt (keifer) and other foods containing live cultures, or take a supplement containing 10 billion colony-forming units a day of acidophilus or bifidobacteria. Acidification of small intestine promotes of growth of normal bacterial flora, thus alleviates inflammation in small intestine, promotes production of immunoglobulin (IgA). There are products like Lactic Acid yeast or Saccharomyces. Which will convert any sugar into lactic acid. Acidophilus needs lactose to convert it into lactic acid. Edited by KillerFlu.net |
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Deej
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april, please keep posting, i am learning a lot...
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dee
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Thanks, I just do not want to annoy anyone. I am not one to talk on the phone or over the internet. I like to educate (and learn "read" from all of your posts) so I am not that personal. However, if you knew me personally I could talk your head off and boy do I love to joke and laugh. I just to don't want to come off as a know-it-all, because I know that I am not; and or a person trying to step in when they are not wanted or needed. Like I said because I am not one to "talk" I can come off wrong. April |
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Trigger
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Supplements are great to learn about, not all people even think of taking them. I truly believe that we all should take our supplements.
Some comments have been about getting antibiotics. Are these for secdondary bacterial infections? Which ones should I get? Input pelase.
Albert I did check out the web link for prescriptions but their list was very limited. Did I miss something? What I need I did not see. |
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Trigger
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I personally have a stash of prescription antibiotics; I also am taking immune boosting supplementation. If and when my family or I become infected I also will administer other supplements that may help us. Does this help or do you want to know specific supplements? Because some will help with infections, inflammation, cleaning of the blood (viral) and others help your body repair tissue. |
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Boozy
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basically get your immune system in top shape and u should b alright........nothin like vitamin e or stuff like that a help but get your immune system n top shape...............
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i'm soory 4 what i've did and 2 say i love everybody n the world............
make your peace now with people u love or know |
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Trigger
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KillerFlu.net:
Thanks! Yes, I would liove to have your list of supplements and more. Please post it. |
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Trigger
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April, PLEASE keep posting and educating us on supplements! I believe in them and my personal list is not inconsiderable. I'm sorry about failing to provide feedback to you. I was letting this be your "baby". Besides I already get myself in enough trouble with the medical folk around here. What I love about your information is that it is user friendly. People need to educate themselves about these issues so that they can make informed decisions, you facilitate that education. A priceless contribution on our collective journey. Both hubby and I are cancer survivors and so supplements play heavy in our lives. I also only buy the highest quality, tested & guaranteed ingredient levels. This, unfortunately is an issue in the supplement industry. |
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There are alot of foods that have healing properties Cranberries for bladder infection also blueberries help. Does any one have a good list of foods that heal. Vitamin C is also good for allergies. |
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stardust
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I have been using alternative supplements for years. I'm not in the medical profession so I appreciate the additional information on products. I use vitamin C also. I take the Calcium Ascorbate powdered version. It's easier on my system and mixed with liquids goes to my system faster. A teaspoon equates to 4490 mg. I usually take half of that. There is also another supplement that I plan on stocking up on called "Cell Food" by Lumina. I've taken this stuff for years. Its a liquid that you put in water. It supplys oxygen to the cells and has alot of minerals, enzymes and amino acids. It also kills viruses. I don't know what the impact it would have on bird flu. I know it has been helpful for me in the past with other flus. Perhaps someone could check into this that has more of a medical/scientific backgroud.
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"Prepping is Power"!
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HMMMM.... Two issues with Cell Food: 1) How much of the minerals and such do you get from 8 drops? 2) I would NEVER ingest a product that didn't list their ingredients, no matter how minute they may be. Now, I have taken and like, SuperGreen products, similar w/o the "oxygen" hype and you get measurable amounts. Even with SuperGreen products there is controversy as to the benefits. But at least I KNOW what I am putting in my body. But supplements are such a personal issue, and I, like you, have no medical training. |
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stardust
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No, not every mineral, amino acid, etc is listed on the bottle. They do have those ingrediants listed on an accompanied pamphlet. This was simply a suggestion. It works for me and several friends who got approval from their doctors. I don't sell this stuff nor was my intention to force this on anyone. My apologies if this was how it came across. |
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"Prepping is Power"!
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Stardust, you misunderstood my post, or I was unclear. You asked for feedback, I gave you mine. I also admitted that I take a product that medical experts officially find "useless" but makes me feel good. Placebo? But on further reflection...if it kills viruses and bacteria wouldn't that be counter productive to a healthy digestive track? We need our good fauna in our systems. I take stuff to keep mine in line and healthy... SuperGreen & live culture yogurt. I work hard at and spend a lot of money on this. I guess this colored my response. I meant no offense, and didn't think you were peddling it, only sharing and looking for input...the two things we are here for. |
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koolsteve
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where do you get those?
i wonder if we can even catch it ifwe have vtamen c pills, e pills, a flu shot, and tamiflu.. Edited by koolsteve |
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ninjas rule
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Are you seriously asking "Where can I get these vitamin C pills"? If so, I would suggest you forgo anything further in this forum. It is beyond your comprehension at the present stage you find yourself in.
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koolsteve
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wait cant you just get those at like walgreens or longs?
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ninjas rule
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chefmom
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I got mine at walmart. I got the chewable kind so my kids would take them with out too many complaints. I like them too. They kinda taste like sweet tarts!
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May God protect us all.
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i am a firm believer in taking milk thistle on a daily basis. don't know if it will help protect us from the bird flu, but i have been taking it for over 20 years. it is supposed to protect the liver from chemicals, alcohol, and prescription drugs. i have lyme disease (7 years) and have been on and off of massive doses of antibiotics and my liver levels have remained within a normal range. any thoughts? kathie |
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Kathie, I haven't been ignoring your question...I have been madly trying to find some authoritative information. This is what I have found so far, but haven't gotten past first gloss. I will look into it further. I will say this though...what I see recommends it to me as a general suppliment that I would consider & possilbly of benefit with H5N1. http://jimmunol.org/cgi/content/full/163/12/6800 [snip] Because silymarin exhibits anticarcinogenic, anti-inflammatory, and growth-modulatory effects, much as TNF does, we hypothesized that these effects of silymarin are mediated through suppression of NF-B activation, the mediator of many of the TNF effects. Numerous lines of evidence suggest this possibility. For example, various agents that promote tumorigenesis are known to activate NF-B (21), including phorbol ester, okadaic acid, and TNF. In addition, several genes that are involved in tumorigenesis, metastasis, and inflammation are regulated by NF-B (21). Recent reports indicate that NF-B protects cells from undergoing apoptosis (22). The activation of NF-B is regulated by several kinases which belong to the mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) family (23). Furthermore, activators of NF-B are also known to induce apoptosis (21). The activation of NF-B and kinases in most cases is dependent on the production of reactive oxygen species (21, 22, 23). Because silymarin has been described to be an antioxidant with anti-inflammatory, cytoprotective, and anticarcinogenic effects, we tested the hypothesis that these effects are mediated through its modulation of activation of NF-B, members of the MAPK, and caspase-mediated apoptosis. Our results demonstrate that silymarin is a potent inhibitor of NF-B activation. It also inhibits TNF-induced c-Jun N-terminal protein kinase (JNK) and MAPK kinase (MEK) activation and caspase-induced apoptosis. |
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But this seems to indicate that Milk Thistle would be a bad idea!! You pick, I will go with bad idea. http://medscimonit.com/pub/vol_8/no_11/2945.pdf [snip] BR442 Milk Thistle induced augmentation of cytokines in MLC Next we determined whether lymphocyte proliferation augmentation was mediated by Th1 (IFN-. and IL-2) or Th2 (IL-4 and IL-10) cytokines. We found that IFN-., IL-4 and IL-10 cytokines were increased in cultures incubated with whole extract of milk thistle (table 1). The IFN-., IL-4 and IL-10 production from alloantigen stimulate lymphocyte proliferation in the control group We have uncovered a novel immunostimulatory effect of milk thistle, a botanical which has been used commonly for its hepatotrophic effect. In this report we describe, for the first time, the immunostimulatory activity of this herb, including the action on allogeneic and mitogen stimulated lymphocytes. We also demonstrated that these effects are dose dependent and that, at pharmacologically relevant doses, milk thistle is not toxic to lymphocytes. Finally, our experiments found that milk thistle can augment secretion of IFN-., IL-4, and IL-10 cytokines in stimulated lymphocytes that could be a mechanism in which milk thistle modulated immune system. The active ingredients in the extract of the dried seeds of milk thistle (or Silybum marianum) include the flavinoid silymarin [5] which appears to act on several systems [6–12]. Silymarin is a mixture of silybine, isosilybine, silycristine, silydianine, and taxifoline [7] of which the silibinins (silybin and its isomers) appear to have the most potent effects [13]. These flavinoids are best known for their protective actions on liver cells, but are now recognized to have anti neoplastic and anti-inflammatory effects also. Agarwal and coworkers have described the antineoplastic effects of silymarin on prostate cancer [14], skin cancer [15], and breast cancer [16]. Others have found that silibinin protects exocrine pancreas from cyclosporin A toxicity suggesting that extracts of milk thistle also affect the pancreatic acinar cells [11]. Silymarin increase the glutathione content in the liver, stomach, and intestine of rats [17]. Silibinin and silycristine stimulates proliferation of kidney cells in culture [18]. Finally, very small quantities of milk thistle extract reduce nitric oxide production from astrocytes [19]. Thus, although milk thistle is commonly used in the treatment of liver disorders, its ingredients appear to have stimulatory and beneficial effects on many other cell types. More relevant to our experiments are reports in the literature suggesting that milk thistle also has an effect on leukocytes. These reports have focused mainly on the action of this botanical on macrophage and other inflammatory cells. Tager et al. have found that the components of milk thistle, silymarin and silibinin restore the cellular thiol status of peritoneal macrophages from CAPD patients [20]. The increase in the intracellular thiol in the macrophages treated with these agents was followed by an improvement in the phagocytosis and synthesis of IL-6 and IL-1ra. Other reports indicate that silymarin suppresses the effects of TNF on inflammatory cells. None of these reports, however, have described the action of milk thistle on lymphocytes [21]. Thus, although earlier reports in the literature suggest that milk thistle has effects on leukocytes, none have reported its effects on lymphocytes, which are a predominant cell type that modulates the immune system.
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htpp
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I apologize if it's been listed here and I've overlooked it, but I reviewed the chart for adults on how much Vitamin C to take before and after flu for adults, but I would like to know how much Vitamin C children should be taking now. I have 3 small children ages 2, 4 and 7. I called and asked my doctor this questions mistakedly referenced my questioin to the Bird Flu - she thinks there is nothing to worry about - so she didn't really answer my question other than to take their daily vitamin. By reading info on this forum it appears that myself and my family should also be taking Vitamin E. Anyone know how much per day? Thanks and God Bless you all for the helpful information you post daily. |
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fritz
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Vitamins D, E, A, & K are oil soluable vitamins and must be taken with care because they are toxic if taken in high doses. The body has no way to exrete them. Vitamin C is a water soluable vitamin and any "overdosing" will just be excreted out in the urine and at most cause stomach cramping and diarrhea. Also, the human body can only absorb 1 gram (1000 mg) of Vitamin C an hour. So if you're taking 2,500 mg of Vitamin C at one time you are only absorbing 1000mg and the rest you are just peeing out. It is not harmful, just a waste of money. Literally pissing $ away. |
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Fritz, your info was exactly correct.
BTW, Wal-Mart sells a tropical fruit Vit. C /500mg, 200 count, for about $6.......kid stuff, tastes yummy. Mary Kay RN Edited by Mary Kay |
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fritz
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BTW, You should also make sure you brush your teeth after taking Vit. C in chewable or drinking form because it will take the enamel off you teeth. Also, if you take calcium supplements take them at a different time then when taking "C" because your body cant absorb them both at the same time. Calcium is best taken with food I think. It is very hard for it to be absorbed through the intestinal wall. It just doesn't breakdown very efficiently into small enough particles. So just take your Vit.C in between meals if you take both.
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"I am only one; but still I am one, I cannot do everything, but still I can do something. I will not refuse to do the something I can do." -- Hellen Keller
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This is what my research yielded:
1. Cohen HA, Varsano I, Kahan E, et al. Effectiveness of an herbal preparation containing echinacea, propolis, and vitamin C in preventing respiratory tract infections in children. Arch Pediatr Adolesc Med. 2004;158(3):217- 1. Peters EM, Goetzsche JM, Grobbelaar B, et al. Vitamin C supplementation reduces the incidence of postrace symptoms of upper-respiratory-tract infection in ultramarathon runners. Am J Clin Nutr. 1993;57:170–174. |
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fritz
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Vitamin C(Ascorbic Acid) "Overview:Vitamin C is an antioxidant that is required for tissue growth and repair,adrenal gland function and healthy gums.It protects against the harmful effects of pollution,prevents cancer,protects against infection,and enhances immunity.It also may reduce cholesterol levels and high blood pressure and prevent artherosclerosis.Essential in the formation of collagen ,vitamin C protects against blood clotting and bruising and promotes the healing of wounds and the production of antistress hormones.It also aids in interferon production and is needed for the metabolism of folic acid,tyrosine and phenylalanine. New evidence indicates that vitamin C and vitamin E work synergistically i.e.,when they work together they have a greater effect than when they work separately.Vit E scavenges for dangerous oxygen radicals in the cell membrane,while vitamin C breaks the free radical chain in biological fluids.Both these vitamins greatly extend antioxidant activity. Ester C polyascorbate is a breakthrough in vitamin C,especially those who are suffering from chronic illness such as cancer and Aids.This form of vitamin C(esterified)was first researched by Jonathan Wright.Dr.Wright proved that WBC's ascorbate levels are increased four times more with ester C than with the average vitamin C intake and only 1/3rd of the amount is excreted via.the urine.Because the body cannot manufacture vitamin C,it must be obtained thru the diet or in the form of supplements.Most vitamin C intake is lost in the urine.When larger amounts of vitamin C are required due to illness,it is more effective to take vitamin c intravenously than to take high doses orally.Ester C has naturally chelated minerals than allow for faster absorbtion.It comes in calcium,magnesium,potassium,zinc and sodium forms. Sources: 1)Green vegetables 15)mangos 29)swiss chard 2)Berries 16)mustard greens 30)tomatoes 3)citrus fruits 17)onions 31)turnip greens 4)asparagus 18)oranges 32)watercress 5)avocados 19)papayas 6)beet greens 20)parsley 7)broccoli 21)green peas 8)brussel sproats 22)sweet peppers 9)cantaloupe 23)persimmons 10)collards 24)pineapple 11)currants 25)radishes 12)grapefruit 26)rose hips 13)kale 27)spinach 14)lemons 28)strawberries Warnings: ________ Aspirin,alchohol,analgesics,antidepressants,anticoagulants,o ral contraceptives,and steroids may reduce levels of vitamin c in the body.Diabetic(diabinase)and sulfa drugs may not be as effective when taken with vitmain c.Large amounts may cause a false negative readingwhen testing for blood in the stool.Pregnant women should use amounts no more than 5,000 mg.daily.Infants may become dependent on this supplement and develop scurvy." www.cbase.com/mca.html I found the above information connected to this webpage. You have to click on "nutrition corner" and then go to Vitamin Mineral/Herb Database Summary and Click on Vitamin C. http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=36536 Here is a page that makes taking Vit C look like good news for fighting BF (esp for chicks) Then there's www.vitamincfoundation.org and I don't know who these people are, maybe they're just trying to sell a product. But it seems like good info., I dunno. Anyway, In my first post I was giving you the info that was given to me by several healthcare professionals but it was definitely several years ago and maybe there have been significant improvements since then on the "delivery" of the vitamin making it easier for the body to absorb. There is no mention of what kind of Vitamin C and how it should be taken in the chart you posted. The massive doses of Vitamin C was given intravenously and/or intramuscularly in the article above on the VitaminFoundation webpage. I don't really know how much can be absorbed through the intestine alone. I'll have to look into it further when I have more time. :>} |
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i take 3000mg of vitamin c every 3 hours at the first sign of the flu and it goes away in about 2 days, as opposed to a week or two before taking such a high dosage. i heard your body tells you when you're taking too much of it, as you start to pass gas, so that's how i know when to taper it. the article cited here states differently, and i don't know what to make of it. when i'm sick, i really feel it's working and as i get better, my body needs less of it. i would think if it works synergistically w/vitamin e to not take vit. e in high doses. i would be inclined to take massive doses of vitamin c if the bird flu reaches me. I now use ester-c as it is gentler on your system.
here is an excerpt from the article that was already cited in this thread:
Avian Bird Flu
Because of the "cytokine cascade" which is described as massive in cases of bird flu, the initial doses of ascorbic acid should also be massive. I would suggest like 12 grams every 15 minutes until diarrhea is produced. Then, however, doses should be reduced but not much. Listen to your body. If there are many symptoms, keep taking doses that cause a little diarrhea. You do not want constant runs because it is the amount you absorb that is important, not the amount you put in your mouth. Since all flues have some cytokine cascade and since I have not hospitalized a single patient with a flu, it is hard to believe that massive doses of ascorbate would not be extremely helpful in suppressing the cytokine cascade in a bird flu pandemic. However, the disease will have to be hit hard and fast to prevent serious respiratory difficulties because the first target is the lungs and respiratory difficulties may have to be treated with a respirator which will not be available in adequate numbers in case of a pandemic. http://www.orthomed.com/bird.htmEdited by marzantar - April 11 2006 at 10:48pm |
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Well, here's my testimonial for vitamin c.
2 months ago me,my daughter and grandson came down with the flu - it was awful. Worse than I can ever remember having. MY recovery,being totally healthy and 43, was SLOW. I ended up with an awful case of pleurisy and was put on zithro...just in case.
My son, who is asthmatic and has severe hayfever, was my main concern. Last year a common cold produced a bad asthma attack. His first bad one ever in his 14 years. I was terrified he would get this awful flu. Luckily, I had started giving him vitamin c drops a week earlier. Still, the thought of what the flu did to MY healthy lungs and what it could do to his compromised ones was chilling.
He never got sick. He sneezed twice one day and that was it. He lived in a house with sneezing and severe coughing going on daily.... the viral load in the air must have been tremendous.............and he had nothing but two sneezes...
Don't know the medical whys and wherefores of vitamin c...all I know is that it worked wonders for my son. He takes it daily. And the BEST news of all was that he did not take LARGE doses of it......just one of those vitamin c drops that provide 100 percent of the daily requirement each day. That was it. No mega doses were needed.
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I have a terrible flu and will try the vitamin C plus cranberry juice
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Im Appalled
Valued Member Joined: April 05 2006 Status: Offline Points: 34 |
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Marzantar, I used to work with someone who ended up having her gall bladder removed. She told me that her doctor said it was because she abused the dosage of vitamin C. She used to take large dosages.. if I remember correctly 2000mg every day or twice a day...? I'm not sure. What I do know for certain is that she told me that her doctor told her that she damaged her gall bladder by taking too much Vitamin C. Just wanted to let you know. Also, I agree that taking the correct dosage of vitamin C everyday is a good thing. Just want to make that very clear. |
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"There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action." Einstein
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calendula
Valued Member Joined: February 18 2006 Status: Offline Points: 345 |
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According to research, Vitamin C has not been shown to damage any internal organs even in high doses. Vitamin C is a water soluble vitamin, therefore it does not store in the body, body uses what is needed, then eliminates the rest, and it is because of this that it is recommended taking vitamin c throughout the day, as oppose to megadosis once day.
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About 90% of kidney stones are made when oxalate binds to calcium. Oxalate does not dissolve very well in urine and therefore it plays an important part of initial stone formation when it precipitates. Vitamin C or ascorbic acid is broken down in the intestine to oxalate. Patients who have intestinal abnormalities which cause them to absorb oxalate at an increased rate are at risk of forming stones if they “overdose “ on vitamin C. Usually 2 grams ( 2000 mg) a day is considered a high dose. Campbell’s Urology, 7 Th. edition, 1998, Volume #3, page 2673 states that eighty percent of the oxalate found in urine comes from endogenous production in the liver ( it is made in the body) 40% from ascorbic acid , 40% from glycogen ( an amino acid) and 10% come from dietary sources. source: Urology Forum Med Help International Edited by DISPENSER 4 HIR - April 16 2006 at 4:19pm |
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I meant to try it with this flu sore throat but now my throat hurts too much to chew the vitamen C Next time I will get the efferecent drink Vit C
I think i will get it tommorow |
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The Merck manual recommends Natural Vitamin C that ALSO contains bioflavinoids (they come from the white tissue on citrus fruit) as a method of reducing a Herpes Simplex 1 outbreak (ie the one that causes cold sores). I can attest it worked in me had 1 cold sore as a child and did not get another one until in my twenty's when I tried to quit smoking. It was on the way to forming a blister and a full blast cold sore. Once I began this particular type of Vit C it stopped proggressing and self resolved. Think the minimum dosage was 1000 mg a day. Note the ascorbic acid stuff does not work. Though it is not proven to work against bird flu the excess spills into urine and is excreted unlike Vitamins A, E, D etc which are stored in fat tissue and could be toxic at high doses.
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Im Appalled, I talked to my doctor about vitamin c, and she said that taking large doses can cause damage if taken over a long period of time. So I just take large doses when sick and have switched to Ester C. I wonder if there have been any studies of its use against bird flu. I don't think so.
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