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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk

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    Posted: August 29 2006 at 5:31am
Update :
 
1) Have declared Michigan swams low path. (Thanks Sand - can always count you to get data really fast - like 20 minutes ago after my post or close to it)
 
Let's look at what is being said
 
The swans had shown no sign of sickness, which indicated this was low pathogenicity avian influenza. Pathogenicity refers to the ability of the virus to produce a disease.

A low-pathogenic strain, which produces less disease and mortality in birds than does a high-pathogenic version, poses no threat to human health.

The low-pathogenic strain of H5N1 has been found six other times in the United States since 1975, most recently in 2002. It is common for mild and low pathogenic strains of bird flu to appear in the United States and other countries.

Let's look at what this means:
 
1) Mexico, Russia, and South Korea will lift the poultry ban.
2) The terms low path and high path as used in news releases and statements are almost as meaningless as the word flu itself.
 
Having posted previous data and gotten a bit of debate on this, the definition of "low path and high path" is changing. Early on a few years ago (I have cited articles) generally it was a 10-20% mortality rate with some going up to 50%. In extreme cases (as is necessary) it sometimes has been "adjusted to" 80%+ to be defined high path.
 
Therefore what was previously by death count defined high path can be by adjusting the defintions be called low path.
 
The geneticists of course will come in strongly with sequencing, the alternate method of defining a high or low path but this can be easily used to take something which "by the book" is low path but could kill possibly 60% of the poultry.
 
Summary : So on the "What did those Michigan swans have issue" we have this "closure release" it was only low path H5N1. Where am I getting confused here. Since when is H5N1 in any form present in the United States? There have been documented cases, but are we to going to jump from only a few and in the past H5N1 birds, to it is common, even endogenous. And as in China, cannot H5N1 without a great deal of effort jump to high path in birds. Also, can't this high path be carried by birds who appear completely healthy. And finally can't this jump to people, domestic poultry. True, our domestic poultry is much better sheltered from wild birds. Although Tyson has moved one of its main packing plants to Durango, Mexico - just lifting the poultry boycott from Pennsylvania in the last week.
 
So - end of no news on the emergence of H5N1 recently in America since it became a real problem in China. We now have a North American variety which is safe and no hazard to our public health.
 
The road is now open for more cases in more states now that we are testing in the other 48 for positive H5N1. We are aware it has happened in the past. Mexico did not boycott Texas poultry for no reason, and only a year after the "clearance" of Texas - and they began importing it, there was another outbreak of it in the chicken.
 
Comment : for as long as the researchers on AFF keep surfing the net - and the site remains up - there will be no news blacks outs here.
 
 
 
 
 
 
Original Post:
 
Have posted a previous thread and although I have less time to surf the net for news, things are getting extremely quiet. Perhaps some comments here if you are noticing the same things.
 
1) 60,000 to 80,000 (please check numbers) from Alaska specimens for Avian (have been, are being, will be) done. Results?
2) Meat in poultry plant distributed possibly to hundreds of restaurants? Boxes missing and switched? Update????
3) H5N1 found in Michigan Swans being tested for high path at Ames. Results?
4) Numerous low path outbreaks, follow up studies on the Canadian fowl, flocks contaminated in U.K. - growing cases in Thailand and especially Vietnam - people died - news cases?
5) 8/14/06 - the day H5N1 probably entered the U.S. Data ... ???
 
We can dig deeper. There is news in foregin languages in Chinese papers and other media.
 
The other day Sands posted about 100,000,000 cases of Deng fever in the last year? This is not a pandemic?
 
Have we been the recepient of some miraculous cessation of the spread of Avian - or has all negative information ceased to be available?
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Answer to #3...
 
Asian bird flu ruled out in Mich. swan

By LIBBY QUAID, AP Food and Farm Writer Mon Aug 28, 7:10 PM ET

WASHINGTON - Bird flu found in a wild swan in Michigan was not the deadly Asian strain that has ravaged poultry and killed at least 141 people worldwide, the Agriculture Department said Monday.

Final tests confirmed the swan had a mostly harmless, low-pathogenic strain of the H5N1 virus, officials said.

Authorities found bird flu in two mute swans Aug. 14, but only one of the samples had high enough levels of flu to allow confirmatory tests. Earlier genetic analysis ruled out the more virulent Asian strain in both birds.

The low-grade strain has been found many times in North American wild birds and poses no threat to people, the department said. Confirmatory tests were done by the department's National Veterinary Services Laboratories in Ames, Iowa.

The swans were the first reported in the government's effort to test as many as 100,000 wild birds to determine if the virulent Asian H5N1 strain has arrived in North America. Officials expect the virus to reach the continent this year.

The sampling was expanded earlier this month from Alaska to the entire nation. Among the first targets were 20 mute swans from a game area in Monroe County, Mich. Testing found the possibility of H5N1 in two of the swans.

Any finding of highly pathogenic H5N1 in wild birds in the U.S. would prompt more intensive monitoring and extra security measures to protect commercial poultry flocks from infection.

Deadly, highly pathogenic strains spread rapidly and are usually fatal to chickens and turkeys, the department said, while low pathogenic H5N1 generally causes little sign of sickness in birds.

Since 2003, the virulent H5N1 strain has been blamed for the death or destruction of millions of birds overseas. Nearly all the people who have been infected had close contact with sick birds or their droppings. However, scientists fear the virus could mutate into a form that is spread easily among humans.

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My feeling is this: why test (flu chip) for something (H5NI) unless it is on the radar screen? But, alas it is low path from yesterdays "final" reports.
The flu chip news release came out first, then the final result on the Michigan swans. I have a gazillion questions.
 
We should search the foreign newspapers. I think you said it best when you mentioned the continuance of selling our poultry products oversea is very important.
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Birds tested by state (US) 2006 season:
 
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I would like to think this was all a bad dream,,,,or I have been over-reacting.....or that BF has really gone away...........If only....

But then again..What am I missing...Why , or how could  all the news be supperessed???























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Originally posted by MaryR MaryR wrote:


I would like to think this was all a bad dream,,,,or I have been over-reacting.....or that BF has really gone away...........If only....

But then again..What am I missing...Why , or how could  all the news be supperessed???
 
Well Mary, I am certainly with you 100%. AFF is a most interesting place and I have spent many days in here, weeks really, and yet if it all kind of fades away, great. I will miss the people here, who are very interesting to post back to, and yet as an investigator of information, a researcher, it is kind of like gettting a delivery pizza, one piece is missing, and you think - did the delivery boy eat it?
 
I do know that Indonesia and Vietnam cannot posssibly contain this with 200,000,000 birds flying around, it being endogenous (constantly present) in the birds and people going to sleep at night sometimes with a chicken under their arms or in their bed.
 
We certainly don't need to generate a constant atmosphere of conspiracy and panic just to make life interesting.
 
So we have a "don't worry be happy" from the Michigan bird report. Do notice there are statements like "Well the birds looked healthy enough."
 
Enjoy the day. Don't worry about Avian. Play with the kids, or go out, and worry a little less. Meanwhile, some of us will keep monitoring common media as well as the underground web.
 
























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Originally posted by Songbird Songbird wrote:

Birds tested by state (US) 2006 season:
 
 
This is good. Now, what were the results and %s for low path?
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Originally posted by medclinician medclinician wrote:

Originally posted by Songbird Songbird wrote:

Birds tested by state (US) 2006 season:
 
 
This is good. Now, what were the results and %s for low path?
 
 
Good question....
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Originally posted by argyll argyll wrote:

My feeling is this: why test (flu chip) for something (H5NI) unless it is on the radar screen? But, alas it is low path from yesterdays "final" reports.
The flu chip news release came out first, then the final result on the Michigan swans. I have a gazillion questions.
 
We should search the foreign newspapers. I think you said it best when you mentioned the continuance of selling our poultry products oversea is very important.
 
I truly must get to making our daily living and sustenance, but without sounding ominous, the sky is still blue, the birds (for now) are still singing, and there are still Avian outbreaks in the world. I take no comfort that the people dying are not white skinned and live so away.
 
Thanks to you and hundreds of people (it may be thousands) I think a hit count of 3,000,000 was mentioned in a week by Albert (correct me if I am off on this.) For a web site, that is a lot of people reading a lot of posts.
Most of them read and do not comment. But it is the silent ones who elect presidents and control the political power of our country. And no doubt, people want to be informed and hear a wide spectrum of perspectives on the current situation on Avian.
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We are out there trying to crack the health departments in order to get the brochure out to the American public. You are right -- the sky is still blue and the birds are singing -- I take comfort in that. Somehow it makes that job all the more motivating -- I for one hope the skies continue to stay blue ...
 
We still have time to inform and educate-- so I will keep working away. Thanks for bringing this important subject to our attention. Your posts are priceless!
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Keep expectations low.  This virus could pop-up on our shores tomorrow or many months down the road.  There is not one country in the world that will roll out the red carpet for it's arrival and I fully expect the US to work harder that any other country to minimize the presence and effect of this virus before or when it does arrive.  There is just too much at stake economically and mentally for our citizens.   So many people won't or simply can't prepare for this and yet they will be the ones at the front of the lines screaming for help. I believe our government is prepared to hold back for as long as they can for this reason alone.  I'm convinced they expect the public reaction to be extreme whether it' low path, high path or H2H.  So don't expect too much news to be offered by our government until we are in a full on H2H situation. 
 
Full disclosure at this point only invites sanctions, ban on exports, panic and pandemonium amongst the public.  The government has everything to gain by holding back and really nothing to lose except trust and credibility.  The government may be able to manipulate and control testing and outbreak stats but there will be other telltale signs that we can pick up on to give us fair warning. 
 
So status quo for now, as it has been our job all along to find those leaks, inconsistencies and trip ups in news reports that will give us the jump when the time has arrived for action.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2006 at 10:52am
These latest new releases with regard to the flu chip say a lot. The sooner we can help to educate the better. One person who preps, is hopefully one less person seeking medical help on the outside later on if they might need it. You are right about what we will be told. So many people have commented on that. No official word until it is so obvious. There is too much at stake economically and financially, psychologically. I understand their rationale.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dlugose Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 29 2006 at 11:15am
The FLU chip is a great step forward in speed, but it remains to be seen if it will be relied on for accuracy once it is available. See
Links to and abstracts of the developer's professional articles are there, mentioning 1% false postives, 4% false negatives, and completely correct information 72% of the time.  A false negative is where
the test said there was no influenza when there was, false positive was
where it said the subject had influenza when the subject did not.  These
imperfections are common to virology tests in general.
Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia
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"Keep expectations low.  This virus could pop-up on our shores tomorrow or many months down the road.  There is not one country in the world that will roll out the red carpet for it's arrival and I fully expect the US to work harder that any other country to minimize the presence and effect of this virus before or when it does arrive. " (Cruiser)
..............................................................................................................
 
 
Countries did get together to discuss how the presence of H5N1
would be handled if found in the Americas. (looking for that file)
 
Things looked good in Italy for a while...
 
 
In Italy, health officials reported finding an H5N1 virus in a wild duck this week, but they said it was a low-pathogenic strain unrelated to the poultry outbreaks in Asia.
 
 
Italy and Greece find deadly H5N1 bird flu 
By Elisabeth Rosenthal International Herald Tribune
SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006
 
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Originally posted by Anharra Anharra wrote:

"Keep expectations low.  This virus could pop-up on our shores tomorrow or many months down the road.  There is not one country in the world that will roll out the red carpet for it's arrival and I fully expect the US to work harder that any other country to minimize the presence and effect of this virus before or when it does arrive. " (Cruiser)
..............................................................................................................
 
 
Countries did get together to discuss how the presence of H5N1
would be handled if found in the Americas. (looking for that file)
 
Things looked good in Italy for a while...
 
 
In Italy, health officials reported finding an H5N1 virus in a wild duck this week, but they said it was a low-pathogenic strain unrelated to the poultry outbreaks in Asia.
 
 
Italy and Greece find deadly H5N1 bird flu 
By Elisabeth Rosenthal International Herald Tribune
SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006
 

The H5N1 bird flu virus has been detected in wild birds in Italy and Greece, European officials have announced, the first time its presence has been detected in the European Union. It was also detected in Bulgaria.

 "The bird flu virus has arrived in Italy," Francesco Storace, the Italian health minister, said Saturday at a news conference, announcing that 17 swans had been found dead in three southern regions: Calabria, Sicily and Puglia.

 The National Avian Influenza Lab in Padua confirmed H5N1 in five of the dead swans, and tests on others were continuing, Storace said.

 The arrival of bird flu in Western Europe has been predicted for months, since the virus has moved steadily from China to Russia to the Balkans and, in the last week, to West Africa.

 It is being carried by migrating birds, so all countries on their flight paths are vulnerable.

 "In some ways we would have expected it earlier in Italy," said Juan Lubroth, a senior veterinarian at the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organization in Rome.

 The discovery of the Italian outbreak seemed to be a model of early detection, underlining how bird flu can be controlled in countries that have the money and the scientific resources to do it.

 Outbreaks in poor countries like Nigeria, Turkey and Iraq percolated for months before they were discovered, allowing the virus to spread widely to commercial chicken flocks and even to humans.

 While the H5N1 virus does not readily spread from human to human, scientists worry that it will mutate into a form that can, setting off a worldwide human pandemic.

 Only about 160 people have become infected with the disease, mostly through close contact with sick birds, and about half of them have died.

 Police officers near Messina, Sicily, found two dead swans on Thursday and performed rapid screening tests on them in the wild, which suggested that the swans had a flu virus, according to ANSA, the official Italian news agency. Such simple tests are not specific enough to indicate a particular virus or strain, like H5N1.

 The carcasses were immediately sent to a veterinary institute in Palermo, the Sicilian capital, which sent samples to the laboratory in Padua, where the positive test results were returned Saturday.

 Following the tests, Storace prohibited all movement of live animals in the affected regions. There are no signs of infection in commercial poultry yet, he said.

 "There is no immediate danger for our country because our system of surveillance is efficient and has not contaminated bird farms," Mauro Delogu, an Italian virologist at the University of Bolgona, told ANSA.

 In Greece, health officials announced that three swans in the northern part of the country had tested positive for the virus. Hours later, European Union officials said that some swans in Bulgaria, near the Danube Delta, had as well.

 Dead swans have become an important sentinel because they are very susceptible to the flu virus and are so large that people notice when they die, Lubroth said. Swans in southern Italy do not normally migrate, he said, but their wetlands are along many bird migration routes.

 Last autumn, several European countries, including Switzerland, Austria and the Netherlands, mandated that all commercial poultry be kept indoors, to prevent any contact with migrating birds. Greece also now requires that poultry be kept indoors and has banned the sale of live birds at street markets.

 Trying to calm public fears, the European Union's health commissioner, Markos Kyprianou, said: " We should not be unduly surprised or alarmed if such cases are found in the European Union. What is important is that we have the framework in place to take the appropriate measures as soon as possible to contain it and prevent its spread to poultry, and that is what we are doing."

 Julie Gerberding, director of the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in the United States, said she was not surprised that infected birds had been found in southern Europe.

 "I view that as an expression of how birds fly," she said. "It's just like West Nile marching across the U.S.," she said, referring to the disease transmitted by mosquitoes that feed on infected birds. 'You follow the flight patterns."

 The variant strain of H5N1 found in Turkey and confirmed in Africa last week is identical to one found last year in dead migratory birds in a nature reserve in northern China, and later in Siberia. It is different from strains circulating among poultry in Southeast Asia and Indonesia.

 Two species of ducks, the northern pintail and the garganey, migrate in a southwesterly direction each fall from Siberia to Turkey and the Black Sea coast, and in some cases to central Africa, according to a recent article in New Scientist.

 Other species that share the same African wetlands migrate north in the spring, which raises the threat that the disease will be spread more widely around Western Europe later this year.

 Donald G. McNeil Jr. and Lawrence K. Altman contributed reporting for this article.  

Thank you Anharra, I added the entire article in yellow.
 
My thoughts wonder if the Italian discovery caused any lasting econmic impact. Any H2H cases? Any further finds?  It's been over six months since this article. Is no news, good news?
 
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This is  a wrap of sorts and a lot has been said on this thread. I went and filled up my 4 wheel drive go anywhere vehicle this morning on the way to get back to what I need to get back to and very thankful I could do it for under $30. I also think, in between monitoring disease on the planet, it is time to go after the legendary 12 foot Muskee in a nearby lake.

Thank you Dan for more data on the chip. So, in a few days, I guess we'll need to check out Italy and more about Europe.
 
 
 
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Hello everyone.  New to the site and just love what I have been reading.  I must say that I have always felt that the threat of the pandemic has been good because it has caused the US to be more prepared.  Just like with everything else that has happend over the last decade though, I feel they are blowing this out of proportion as to this disease spreading into a pandemic.  With as little preparation as most countries affected by it have had, the disease has not infected that many overall and even if you consider not all cases have been reported, it still doesn't sound to me as if it is spreading rapidly at all in those countries...and again, they are not prepared nor educated like most of the US is at this point.  So perhaps I need to be educated further, am I missing something??
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Hi roni...
 
When H5N1 saturates the earth totally (wildlife, water,soil etc.) we may see more action for humans (sadly.)
 
 
Annie,  More info on Italy...  Sounds familiar (many in denial like US)
 
 
ITALY
..............
 
Seems to be a lot of Chicken Flu News in August...
 
 
 
 
 
CHICKEN FLU: FRANCESCO STORACE, 36 MILLION VACCINE DOSES AGAINST PANDEMIC ALREADY BOOKED
 
Rome, August 26 (Adnkronos) - Italy, first country to do so, has stipulated contracts with three companies for the production of 36 million vaccine doses in the event of a flu pandemic. The agreements, for which EUR 5.4 million will be spent, ensure our country’s right of pre-emption on the vaccine, available within 3-4 months after pandemic declaration by the World Health Organization. This was announced today by Health Minister Francesco Storace. The companies are Sanofi-Aventis, Chiron and Solvay.
 
 
CHICKEN FLU: LEGAMBIENTE, ABSENCE OF EUROPEAN FOOD SAFETY AGENCY SERIOUS

Rome, August 25 - (Adnkronos) - ''The EFSA must finally give an opinion on chicken flu and show its usefulness''. This is the request made by Legambiente Director General Francesco Ferrante, following the requests presented today by the commission of bird flu experts that met in Brussels.

 
CHICKEN FLU: MINISTER STORACE, FURTHER MEASURES AT WORK FROM TOMORROW

Rome, August 25 - (Adnkronos) - ''Already tomorrow we will work on further measures, including the strengthening of customs with veterinary staff''. This was stated in a press release by Health Minister Francesco Storace, commenting on the first news from Brussels, where the European Standing Committee on the Food Chain and Animal Health met to discuss chicken flu.

 
CHICKEN FLU: CODACONS ASKS STORACE TO INTRODUCE PREVENTION MEASURES OPERATIONAL IMMEDIATELY

Rome, August 25 (Adnkronos) - To render immediately operational the package of measures under consideration against bird flu. This has been requested by Codacons,by underlining with satisfaction in a press release that the Minister of Health, Francesco Storace, has ''fully'' accepted the measures proposed by the same association of consumers.

 
FRANCESCO STORACE, MORE VACCINATIONS NEXT SEASON AGAINST CHICKEN FLU RISKS

Rome, August 24 (Adnkronos) - More vaccinations against the normal seasonal flu, in 2005-2006, also to ward off possible risks linked to chicken flu. The indication arrives from the Minister of Health who, in a circular dated August 5, signed by Minister Francesco Storace and published today on the site of the ministry, proposes recommendations for next season on the prevention and control of the classic flu epidemic.

 
BIANCHI TO FALCONI, OPPOSITION IGNORED OVER CHICKEN FLU COLLABORATION

Rome, August 22 (Adnkronos) - ''The government is deaf to the proposals of transparency and collaboration advanced by some politicians of the opposition to deal with a possible bird flu emergency''. This was stated by Dorina Bianchi, Honorable Margherita Party member, replying to the complaint made by the leader of the Italian Federation of Family Doctors (FIMMG), Mario Falconi, in relation to the inadequacy of the political class to face the problem. Bianchi 'rebukes' the national secretary of the federation of family doctors reminding him that ''what is hoped-for by him today coincides with what has been requested by some politicians of the opposition''.

 
CHICKEN FLU: ECONOMISTS, INCENTIVES FROM GOVERNMENTS TO COMPANIES FOR VACCINE AND DRUGS

Rome, August 22 (Adnkronos) - Governments must guarantee greater incentives to pharmaceutical companies in order to accelerate research on an effective vaccine and the production of antiviral drugs, to counter the human risks from bird flu. This, in summary, is the indication made by Marcello Basili and Maurizio Franzini, professors of political economics at the University of Siena, contained in an article dedicated to the 'principle of precaution and bird flu’ published on the internet site www.lavoce.info.

 
FAMILY DOCTORS, POLITICIANS INCOHERENT OVER BIRD FLU HEALTH MEASURES

Rome, August 22 (Adnkronos) - The Italian political class is incoherent over the health protection measures to adopt against bird flu. This is the complaint made by the leader of the Italian Federation of Family Doctors (FIMMG), convinced that ''our political class is not managing to find a common ground of action in relation to how to deal with the risk of influenza from H5N1, and that every day we have news of controversies instead of credible reassurances''.

 
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roni3470: Welcome to the forum, I am glad you posted. There truly is an education in public health at this forum.

The easiest way that I can sum this up is to say that in 1918 they did not have the capabilities or knowledge in virology to track the pre-pandemic course. Now that those capabilities exist, most of us here would say that we are in a prepandemic period and have been for some time. There have been recent changes to many viruses out there that leads us to believe that we are close enough now to seeing a fullblown pandemic that we need to be prepared. As for the day, no one knows. Even the exact strain is still somewhat up in the air. As I said, we are watching this develop before our eyes and there are many facets to the problems we face as individuals, as a society and as a nation. This is a not yet story.

If you stick around the forum you may have just enough time to get yourself or your family prepared to endure this.

The folks are friendly and helpful and I hope you enjoy your stay. I look forward to your ideas.
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Hi, roni3470. A very warm welcome to this forum. I'm glad you spoke up, that took courage.
Please check out the official websites from the federal govt. the WHO and CDC ( all the links are provided for on the upper right hand). Don't just take our word for it that H5N1 is an extremely serious thread. Then consider that the most experienced virologists in the world are extremely worried and working their butts off.
After you have done some more reading, I hope you will come to the conclusion that you are buying insurance by making preparations. Most other forms of insurance is money spent and no value received, unless a claim is filed. This insurance you will largely consume, so where is the harm??
It takes quite a while to get everything ready, so, please don't wait too long.
Please, stay on the board and let us all know if you need help. We are very fortunate to have great members who are always willing to extend themselves.
Namaste
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Joined: August 30 2006
Location: Colorado
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 30 2006 at 2:04pm
Hey all...oh please do not get me wrong, I see this as a serious threat.  I have masks and a short wave radio with batteries and water and food for 3 months if necessary.  I want to purchase some tamiflu but just do not believe I can trust the authenticity of it.  I see no harm in being prepared and have done so.  My work also has an emergency disaster plan in place and has taken a lot of steps toward making sure we can all work from home if a disaster takes place.  I guess I was just saying that unless there is information being kept from us, at this point I do not see the danger of a pandemic...at least not this year.  Every new year it is a possibility and I think it can be gaged on how the outbreaks occur in other countries, and when the numbers get higher I will believe the pandemic is emminent, but I just don't see that right now.  Even the experts say it could happen tomorrow but also 10 years from now, who knows.   Now I certainly must not be too optimistic that it is not going to happen because I sure have prepared a lot for nothing, so maybe subconsciously I am truly worried and trying to talk myself out of it, who knows!  haha.  BUt I am glad to be in a network of educated and such very friendly people!  Thanks!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 3:15pm
Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

Hello everyone.  New to the site and just love what I have been reading.  I must say that I have always felt that the threat of the pandemic has been good because it has caused the US to be more prepared.  Just like with everything else that has happend over the last decade though, I feel they are blowing this out of proportion as to this disease spreading into a pandemic.  With as little preparation as most countries affected by it have had, the disease has not infected that many overall and even if you consider not all cases have been reported, it still doesn't sound to me as if it is spreading rapidly at all in those countries...and again, they are not prepared nor educated like most of the US is at this point.  So perhaps I need to be educated further, am I missing something??
 
Wecome Roni - well I was going to pack up my 4 wheel drive and head up for the mountains, but I guess there is still work to be done here. Welcome to the forum and remember when wading through some of my posts, many are written very early in the morning before coffee.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 31 2006 at 7:25pm
Originally posted by medclinician medclinician wrote:

[remember when wading through some of my posts, many are written very early in the morning before coffee.
 
How do you do that. The very first thing I need to do in the morning is have at least one cup, before anything.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 01 2006 at 6:11am
Originally posted by mach mach wrote:

Originally posted by medclinician medclinician wrote:

[remember when wading through some of my posts, many are written very early in the morning before coffee.
 
How do you do that. The very first thing I need to do in the morning is have at least one cup, before anything.
 
Hi Mach. After reading about the H5N1 positive in Alaska (low path of course) I am revising my "no coffee before AFF policiy).
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