Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Posted: August 29 2006 at 5:31am |
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Update :
1) Have declared Michigan swams low path. (Thanks Sand - can always count you to get data really fast - like 20 minutes ago after my post or close to it)
Let's look at what is being said
The swans had shown no sign of sickness, which indicated this was low pathogenicity avian influenza. Pathogenicity refers to the ability of the virus to produce a disease.
A low-pathogenic strain, which produces less disease and mortality in birds than does a high-pathogenic version, poses no threat to human health. The low-pathogenic strain of H5N1 has been found six other times in the United States since 1975, most recently in 2002. It is common for mild and low pathogenic strains of bird flu to appear in the United States and other countries. Let's look at what this means:
1) Mexico, Russia, and South Korea will lift the poultry ban.
2) The terms low path and high path as used in news releases and statements are almost as meaningless as the word flu itself.
Having posted previous data and gotten a bit of debate on this, the definition of "low path and high path" is changing. Early on a few years ago (I have cited articles) generally it was a 10-20% mortality rate with some going up to 50%. In extreme cases (as is necessary) it sometimes has been "adjusted to" 80%+ to be defined high path.
Therefore what was previously by death count defined high path can be by adjusting the defintions be called low path.
The geneticists of course will come in strongly with sequencing, the alternate method of defining a high or low path but this can be easily used to take something which "by the book" is low path but could kill possibly 60% of the poultry.
Summary : So on the "What did those Michigan swans have issue" we have this "closure release" it was only low path H5N1. Where am I getting confused here. Since when is H5N1 in any form present in the United States? There have been documented cases, but are we to going to jump from only a few and in the past H5N1 birds, to it is common, even endogenous. And as in China, cannot H5N1 without a great deal of effort jump to high path in birds. Also, can't this high path be carried by birds who appear completely healthy. And finally can't this jump to people, domestic poultry. True, our domestic poultry is much better sheltered from wild birds. Although Tyson has moved one of its main packing plants to Durango, Mexico - just lifting the poultry boycott from Pennsylvania in the last week.
So - end of no news on the emergence of H5N1 recently in America since it became a real problem in China. We now have a North American variety which is safe and no hazard to our public health.
The road is now open for more cases in more states now that we are testing in the other 48 for positive H5N1. We are aware it has happened in the past. Mexico did not boycott Texas poultry for no reason, and only a year after the "clearance" of Texas - and they began importing it, there was another outbreak of it in the chicken.
Comment : for as long as the researchers on AFF keep surfing the net - and the site remains up - there will be no news blacks outs here.
Original Post:
Have posted a previous thread and although I have less time to surf the net for news, things are getting extremely quiet. Perhaps some comments here if you are noticing the same things.
1) 60,000 to 80,000 (please check numbers) from Alaska specimens for Avian (have been, are being, will be) done. Results?
2) Meat in poultry plant distributed possibly to hundreds of restaurants? Boxes missing and switched? Update????
3) H5N1 found in Michigan Swans being tested for high path at Ames. Results?
4) Numerous low path outbreaks, follow up studies on the Canadian fowl, flocks contaminated in U.K. - growing cases in Thailand and especially Vietnam - people died - news cases?
5) 8/14/06 - the day H5N1 probably entered the U.S. Data ... ???
We can dig deeper. There is news in foregin languages in Chinese papers and other media.
The other day Sands posted about 100,000,000 cases of Deng fever in the last year? This is not a pandemic?
Have we been the recepient of some miraculous cessation of the spread of Avian - or has all negative information ceased to be available?
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vagabond74
Experienced Member Joined: August 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 17 |
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Answer to #3...
Asian bird flu ruled out in Mich. swan
By LIBBY QUAID, AP Food and Farm Writer Mon Aug 28, 7:10 PM ET WASHINGTON - Bird flu> found in a wild swan in Michigan was not the deadly Asian strain that has ravaged poultry and killed at least 141 people worldwide, the Agriculture Department said Monday. Final tests confirmed the swan had a mostly harmless, low-pathogenic strain of the H5N1 virus, officials said. Authorities found bird flu in two mute swans Aug. 14, but only one of the samples had high enough levels of flu to allow confirmatory tests. Earlier genetic analysis ruled out the more virulent Asian strain in both birds. The low-grade strain has been found many times in North American wild birds and poses no threat to people, the department said. Confirmatory tests were done by the department's National Veterinary Services Laboratories in Ames, Iowa. The swans were the first reported in the government's effort to test as many as 100,000 wild birds to determine if the virulent Asian H5N1 strain has arrived in North America. Officials expect the virus to reach the continent this year. The sampling was expanded earlier this month from Alaska to the entire nation. Among the first targets were 20 mute swans from a game area in Monroe County, Mich. Testing found the possibility of H5N1 in two of the swans. Any finding of highly pathogenic H5N1 in wild birds in the U.S. would prompt more intensive monitoring and extra security measures to protect commercial poultry flocks from infection. Deadly, highly pathogenic strains spread rapidly and are usually fatal to chickens and turkeys, the department said, while low pathogenic H5N1 generally causes little sign of sickness in birds. Since 2003, the virulent H5N1 strain has been blamed for the death or destruction of millions of birds overseas. Nearly all the people who have been infected had close contact with sick birds or their droppings. However, scientists fear the virus could mutate into a form that is spread easily among humans. |
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They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety - Ben Franklin
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My feeling is this: why test (flu chip) for something (H5NI) unless it is on the radar screen? But, alas it is low path from yesterdays "final" reports.
The flu chip news release came out first, then the final result on the Michigan swans. I have a gazillion questions.
We should search the foreign newspapers. I think you said it best when you mentioned the continuance of selling our poultry products oversea is very important.
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Birds tested by state (US) 2006 season:
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I would like to think this was all a bad dream,,,,or I have been over-reacting.....or that BF has really gone away...........If only.... But then again..What am I missing...Why , or how could all the news be supperessed??? |
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This is good. Now, what were the results and %s for low path?
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Good question....
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I truly must get to making our daily living and sustenance, but without sounding ominous, the sky is still blue, the birds (for now) are still singing, and there are still Avian outbreaks in the world. I take no comfort that the people dying are not white skinned and live so away.
Thanks to you and hundreds of people (it may be thousands) I think a hit count of 3,000,000 was mentioned in a week by Albert (correct me if I am off on this.) For a web site, that is a lot of people reading a lot of posts.
Most of them read and do not comment. But it is the silent ones who elect presidents and control the political power of our country. And no doubt, people want to be informed and hear a wide spectrum of perspectives on the current situation on Avian.
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We are out there trying to crack the health departments in order to get the brochure out to the American public. You are right -- the sky is still blue and the birds are singing -- I take comfort in that. Somehow it makes that job all the more motivating -- I for one hope the skies continue to stay blue ...
We still have time to inform and educate-- so I will keep working away. Thanks for bringing this important subject to our attention. Your posts are priceless!
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Keep expectations low. This virus could pop-up on our shores tomorrow or many months down the road. There is not one country in the world that will roll out the red carpet for it's arrival and I fully expect the US to work harder that any other country to minimize the presence and effect of this virus before or when it does arrive. There is just too much at stake economically and mentally for our citizens. So many people won't or simply can't prepare for this and yet they will be the ones at the front of the lines screaming for help. I believe our government is prepared to hold back for as long as they can for this reason alone. I'm convinced they expect the public reaction to be extreme whether it' low path, high path or H2H. So don't expect too much news to be offered by our government until we are in a full on H2H situation.
Full disclosure at this point only invites sanctions, ban on exports, panic and pandemonium amongst the public. The government has everything to gain by holding back and really nothing to lose except trust and credibility. The government may be able to manipulate and control testing and outbreak stats but there will be other telltale signs that we can pick up on to give us fair warning.
So status quo for now, as it has been our job all along to find those leaks, inconsistencies and trip ups in news reports that will give us the jump when the time has arrived for action.
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These latest new releases with regard to the flu chip say a lot. The sooner we can help to educate the better. One person who preps, is hopefully one less person seeking medical help on the outside later on if they might need it. You are right about what we will be told. So many people have commented on that. No official word until it is so obvious. There is too much at stake economically and financially, psychologically. I understand their rationale.
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Dlugose
Valued Member Joined: July 28 2006 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 277 |
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The FLU chip is a great step forward in speed, but it remains to be seen if it will be relied on for accuracy once it is available. See
Links to and abstracts of the developer's professional articles are there, mentioning 1% false postives, 4% false negatives, and completely correct information 72% of the time. A false negative is where the test said there was no influenza when there was, false positive was where it said the subject had influenza when the subject did not. These imperfections are common to virology tests in general. |
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Dlugose RN AAS BA BS Cert. Biotechnology. Respiratory nurse
June 2013: public health nurse volunteer, Asia |
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"Keep expectations low. This virus could pop-up on our shores tomorrow or many months down the road. There is not one country in the world that will roll out the red carpet for it's arrival and I fully expect the US to work harder that any other country to minimize the presence and effect of this virus before or when it does arrive. " (Cruiser)
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Countries did get together to discuss how the presence of H5N1
would be handled if found in the Americas. (looking for that file)
Things looked good in Italy for a while...
http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/cidrap/content/influenza/avianflu/news/nov1105avian.html
Nov 11, 2005 (CIDRAP News) In Italy, health officials reported finding an H5N1 virus in a wild duck this week, but they said it was a low-pathogenic strain unrelated to the poultry outbreaks in Asia.
Italy and Greece find deadly H5N1 bird flu
By Elisabeth Rosenthal International Herald Tribune SUNDAY, FEBRUARY 12, 2006 |
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Thank you Anharra, I added the entire article in yellow.
My thoughts wonder if the Italian discovery caused any lasting econmic impact. Any H2H cases? Any further finds? It's been over six months since this article. Is no news, good news?
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This is a wrap of sorts and a lot has been said on this thread. I went and filled up my 4 wheel drive go anywhere vehicle this morning on the way to get back to what I need to get back to and very thankful I could do it for under $30. I also think, in between monitoring disease on the planet, it is time to go after the legendary 12 foot Muskee in a nearby lake. Thank you Dan for more data on the chip. So, in a few days, I guess we'll need to check out Italy and more about Europe.
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roni3470
Adviser Group Joined: August 30 2006 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 5390 |
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Hello everyone. New to the site and just love what I have been reading. I must say that I have always felt that the threat of the pandemic has been good because it has caused the US to be more prepared. Just like with everything else that has happend over the last decade though, I feel they are blowing this out of proportion as to this disease spreading into a pandemic. With as little preparation as most countries affected by it have had, the disease has not infected that many overall and even if you consider not all cases have been reported, it still doesn't sound to me as if it is spreading rapidly at all in those countries...and again, they are not prepared nor educated like most of the US is at this point. So perhaps I need to be educated further, am I missing something??
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Hi roni...
When H5N1 saturates the earth totally (wildlife, water,soil etc.) we may see more action for humans (sadly.)
Annie, More info on Italy... Sounds familiar (many in denial like US)
ITALY
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Seems to be a lot of Chicken Flu News in August...
CHICKEN FLU: FRANCESCO STORACE, 36 MILLION VACCINE DOSES AGAINST PANDEMIC ALREADY BOOKED
Rome, August 26 (Adnkronos) - Italy, first country to do so, has stipulated contracts with three companies for the production of 36 million vaccine doses in the event of a flu pandemic. The agreements, for which EUR 5.4 million will be spent, ensure our country’s right of pre-emption on the vaccine, available within 3-4 months after pandemic declaration by the World Health Organization. This was announced today by Health Minister Francesco Storace. The companies are Sanofi-Aventis, Chiron and Solvay.
CHICKEN FLU: LEGAMBIENTE, ABSENCE OF EUROPEAN FOOD SAFETY AGENCY SERIOUS
Rome, August 25 - (Adnkronos) - ''The EFSA must finally give an opinion on chicken flu and show its usefulness''. This is the request made by Legambiente Director General Francesco Ferrante, following the requests presented today by the commission of bird flu experts that met in Brussels. CHICKEN FLU: MINISTER STORACE, FURTHER MEASURES AT WORK FROM TOMORROW
Rome, August 25 - (Adnkronos) - ''Already tomorrow we will work on further measures, including the strengthening of customs with veterinary staff''. This was stated in a press release by Health Minister Francesco Storace, commenting on the first news from Brussels, where the European Standing Committee on the Food Chain and Animal Health met to discuss chicken flu. CHICKEN FLU: CODACONS ASKS STORACE TO INTRODUCE PREVENTION MEASURES OPERATIONAL IMMEDIATELY
Rome, August 25 (Adnkronos) - To render immediately operational the package of measures under consideration against bird flu. This has been requested by Codacons,by underlining with satisfaction in a press release that the Minister of Health, Francesco Storace, has ''fully'' accepted the measures proposed by the same association of consumers. FRANCESCO STORACE, MORE VACCINATIONS NEXT SEASON AGAINST CHICKEN FLU RISKS
Rome, August 24 (Adnkronos) - More vaccinations against the normal seasonal flu, in 2005-2006, also to ward off possible risks linked to chicken flu. The indication arrives from the Minister of Health who, in a circular dated August 5, signed by Minister Francesco Storace and published today on the site of the ministry, proposes recommendations for next season on the prevention and control of the classic flu epidemic. BIANCHI TO FALCONI, OPPOSITION IGNORED OVER CHICKEN FLU COLLABORATION
Rome, August 22 (Adnkronos) - ''The government is deaf to the proposals of transparency and collaboration advanced by some politicians of the opposition to deal with a possible bird flu emergency''. This was stated by Dorina Bianchi, Honorable Margherita Party member, replying to the complaint made by the leader of the Italian Federation of Family Doctors (FIMMG), Mario Falconi, in relation to the inadequacy of the political class to face the problem. Bianchi 'rebukes' the national secretary of the federation of family doctors reminding him that ''what is hoped-for by him today coincides with what has been requested by some politicians of the opposition''. CHICKEN FLU: ECONOMISTS, INCENTIVES FROM GOVERNMENTS TO COMPANIES FOR VACCINE AND DRUGS
Rome, August 22 (Adnkronos) - Governments must guarantee greater incentives to pharmaceutical companies in order to accelerate research on an effective vaccine and the production of antiviral drugs, to counter the human risks from bird flu. This, in summary, is the indication made by Marcello Basili and Maurizio Franzini, professors of political economics at the University of Siena, contained in an article dedicated to the 'principle of precaution and bird flu’ published on the internet site www.lavoce.info. FAMILY DOCTORS, POLITICIANS INCOHERENT OVER BIRD FLU HEALTH MEASURES
Rome, August 22 (Adnkronos) - The Italian political class is incoherent over the health protection measures to adopt against bird flu. This is the complaint made by the leader of the Italian Federation of Family Doctors (FIMMG), convinced that ''our political class is not managing to find a common ground of action in relation to how to deal with the risk of influenza from H5N1, and that every day we have news of controversies instead of credible reassurances''. |
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roni3470: Welcome to the forum, I am glad you posted. There truly is an education in public health at this forum.
The easiest way that I can sum this up is to say that in 1918 they did not have the capabilities or knowledge in virology to track the pre-pandemic course. Now that those capabilities exist, most of us here would say that we are in a prepandemic period and have been for some time. There have been recent changes to many viruses out there that leads us to believe that we are close enough now to seeing a fullblown pandemic that we need to be prepared. As for the day, no one knows. Even the exact strain is still somewhat up in the air. As I said, we are watching this develop before our eyes and there are many facets to the problems we face as individuals, as a society and as a nation. This is a not yet story. If you stick around the forum you may have just enough time to get yourself or your family prepared to endure this. The folks are friendly and helpful and I hope you enjoy your stay. I look forward to your ideas. |
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femvet
Valued Member Joined: August 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 30 |
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Hi, roni3470. A very warm welcome to this forum. I'm glad you spoke up, that took courage.
Please check out the official websites from the federal govt. the WHO and CDC ( all the links are provided for on the upper right hand). Don't just take our word for it that H5N1 is an extremely serious thread. Then consider that the most experienced virologists in the world are extremely worried and working their butts off.
After you have done some more reading, I hope you will come to the conclusion that you are buying insurance by making preparations. Most other forms of insurance is money spent and no value received, unless a claim is filed. This insurance you will largely consume, so where is the harm??
It takes quite a while to get everything ready, so, please don't wait too long.
Please, stay on the board and let us all know if you need help. We are very fortunate to have great members who are always willing to extend themselves.
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Namaste
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roni3470
Adviser Group Joined: August 30 2006 Location: Colorado Status: Offline Points: 5390 |
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Hey all...oh please do not get me wrong, I see this as a serious threat. I have masks and a short wave radio with batteries and water and food for 3 months if necessary. I want to purchase some tamiflu but just do not believe I can trust the authenticity of it. I see no harm in being prepared and have done so. My work also has an emergency disaster plan in place and has taken a lot of steps toward making sure we can all work from home if a disaster takes place. I guess I was just saying that unless there is information being kept from us, at this point I do not see the danger of a pandemic...at least not this year. Every new year it is a possibility and I think it can be gaged on how the outbreaks occur in other countries, and when the numbers get higher I will believe the pandemic is emminent, but I just don't see that right now. Even the experts say it could happen tomorrow but also 10 years from now, who knows. Now I certainly must not be too optimistic that it is not going to happen because I sure have prepared a lot for nothing, so maybe subconsciously I am truly worried and trying to talk myself out of it, who knows! haha. BUt I am glad to be in a network of educated and such very friendly people! Thanks!
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Wecome Roni - well I was going to pack up my 4 wheel drive and head up for the mountains, but I guess there is still work to be done here. Welcome to the forum and remember when wading through some of my posts, many are written very early in the morning before coffee.
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How do you do that. The very first thing I need to do in the morning is have at least one cup, before anything.
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Hi Mach. After reading about the H5N1 positive in Alaska (low path of course) I am revising my "no coffee before AFF policiy).
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