Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Nurse H5N1 positive? |
Post Reply | Page <12 |
Author | |
Linda
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hey I'm really sorry....I wasn't trying to trash anyone I re-read my posts and I guess I could have come across that way. Guess I should have taken the time to re-read them earlier but I was in a hurry and sometimes in writing things don't come across like they're meant. I'm not a nurse either...dropped out after my 3rd year of school...been an EMT and a mom. Some medical background but not as much as someone who has actually been out in the field has...I question everything it's just my nature. Once again I apologize, I'll try to pay more attention to what I'm writing in the future.
|
|
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Linda,
I am not knocking your post. I was standing up for you. A temp goes up at night. And comes down during the day. Various reasons for temp to go down, medicine, asprin , tynelol. etc. And it was a good point that the nurse may have recieved tamiflu in time to make a difference. She may have things in her body makes her get better quicker. We don't know. All we know is what they tell us. Lets hope for the best. |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
One thing that concerns me. Is what I read and see online.
How the bf is spreading fast in Asia,indonesia, etc. Everyday I go to the rsoe emergency map. And those little bird flags are multipling. Can't be good. If you look below the map you can see whats going on in the world. You don't have to click on the map to see. Just scroll down. All the things I see happening in preparation from the gov. and who. make you wonder what is really going on. I think the shtf and they don't know how to tell the people without a panic. I GOT NEWS FOR THE GOV. WHO CDC. TELL US THE TRUTH WE CAN HANDLE IT. |
|
Edenfire
Experienced Member Joined: May 18 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 17 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Linda, (Lurking away again)
|
|
When I do good, I feel good. When I do bad, I feel bad. And that's my religion. ~Abraham Lincoln 1860
|
|
daddog36
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 23 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 119 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Who cares what they say. This is an open forum and I think one nurse comeing down with being sick is concern. For everyone we hear and read about how many are not being reported?
|
|
daddog36
|
|
Linda
V.I.P. Member Joined: April 02 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 265 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Birdlady, Thankyou, I never thought you were knocking my post....I apparently offended a few with my questions (putting it mildly) Just wanted all to know it wasn't the intent.
I wish we had pm!
roxy...how exactly was I supposed to take this comment from you? "just what do you think they use to bring fevers down? standard practice, bring the fever down , make the patient comfortable. the disscussion posted here was , how can the temperature come down so fast, .it used to be, give the patient, tylenol"
You answered a simple question like you were talking to an idiot...I'm far from that....but I guess I should have just accepted it as to say anything back made me the bad guy here. So I pointed out that we weren't talking about normal flu and wanting to know if stats existed on how quickly the fever could typically be reduced in BF....I guess how dare I ask where your info was coming from....You assume that I'm an idiot asking how a fever is reduced in common flu....I would have never dreamt that was what you were talking aboiut when I first asked for a source. I would have never thought anyone on here would be so condesending to think people needed that explained to them.
Again I apologize to all who feel I was being rude....it was not my intent.
|
|
Insanity is making the same mistakes and expecting different results....therefore...Those who don't learn from history are bound to go insane.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Linda,
We are all in this together. We have all had a turn at being taken the wrong way. Shake it off. BATTER UP!!!!!!!!
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
How do we know she was not taking tamiflu as a precaution while she was caring for one or both of the siblings with avian flu? If I had a patient with bird flu and I had tamiflu available to take...........I would probably take it.
|
|
Mayy
advanced Member Joined: May 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 175 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
hi all... been busy here I see.
37 C is 99 F....
found here so y'all are in the know.
true you can get 103 down......
I did, by luke warm water washcloth repeatedly applied to legs below the knees.
If I happrn to get over to the state site on the other board I would love us to talk about careing for il family... to show you some stuff I have you may want to use and change around...everyones input is good.
It will be hard to wait on info about that nurse. Hope she does ok.
|
|
Glow
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 07 2006 Status: Offline Points: 242 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Did the nurse hospital know that they were dealing with a bird flu case?...if they did, were they properly dressed to protect themselves(gloves, masks, etc.)?....At what point upon arrival of the patient(s), did the medical staff start taking precautions?....Did the nurse start taking tamiflu when the patients arrived, or after (and if so how soon after)?.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I think the best stance on this is what we do best, watch dilligently for any news or lack there of and keep ourselves informed. This could very well be bad news and it could just as well be uneventful. We will keep watch. we will stay informed and we WILL keep prepping! Jo
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Welcome McNamara5769! It’s been about five hours, how is your daughter’s temperature? I pray she has continued to improve. Kid temperatures are so important to tend to immediately, you sound like a great mom. Glad to have you aboard. Annie |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Almost anyone who has had a sick child or spouse or loved one is a nurse of some kind and it is amazing how far a little tlc (tender loving care) and support can make a difference in the healing process. And for those who believe in such things, a little prayer can help - in fact even for those who don't believe in such things. I do feel we have a lot of emotional tripwires set here such as 'the first medical person', 'the first out of family transmission', 'someone has never been exposed to birds.'
There is a saying - believe none of what you hear and only half of what you see. I have had to catch myself several times on here on several stories which at first glance set off such a trip wire and then on closer examination found we are not quite there yet. So, to save yourself, some emotional wear and tear, I would suggest, for some to wait out and see some of these stories as these evolve, before letting them effect you too much. I know a lot of you do this already. I try to. I had read a test can be run in 2 hours for Avian. Perhaps the 3 days part is a "to be really sure" test. What kind of special test is this? Avian has been found in the bloodstream and I believe there are tests either available or will be very soon be which are much quicker? Any feedback on this? 3 days? |
|
Dualis
V.I.P. Member Joined: February 10 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 104 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
I for one am hoping that no more health care workers become ill from that cluster... I will then be worried... right now just concerned
|
|
Mom's Rx
Valued Member Joined: April 01 2006 Status: Offline Points: 10 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
This nurse is just one more H2H example in Indonesia. They have lost control of the situation there because they have had so many problems to deal with: earthquakes, tsunami, volcano erupting? such a huge population (spreadout over so many tiny islands) and a government that no-one trusts. Throw in religious customs, poor sanitation and a huge chicken population and that leaves...bird flu chaos.
I think that monitoring each individual case is pointless. Things are beyond that. We know it's H2H and WHO will not declare the next level.
It's only going to make network news when someone in America has a confirmed case.
Watch for it showing up as a cluster in other countries, but I'm afraid it will all happen on the same day.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Nothing can protect you 100% from contracting bird flu. Even the N95 masks are not completely effectively in preventing spread of the disease. |
|
loosecannon
Valued Member Joined: February 11 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 33 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Latest news on the Nurse...
Local test shows girl died from bird flu at Jakarta hospital
The Jakarta Post, Jakarta, Bandung Laboratory tests conducted by the Health Ministry confirmed Friday that a seven-year-old girl who died late Thursday night in Jakarta contracted avian influenza. In Bandung, a nurse who treated confirmed bird flu patients has been quarantined after showing symptoms of the disease. If she is confirmed for H5N1, it would raise the worrisome possibility of human-to-human transmission of the virus. The girl from Pamulang, Tangerang, had been hospitalized for two days at Fatmawati Hospital in South Jakarta for high fever and breathing difficulties before ministry employees took blood samples for testing. She was later transferred to Sulianti Saroso Hospital for infectious diseases. "The girl's parents brought her in together with her brother, who also was suffering from the same symptoms," a staff member at Fatmawati Hospital, Sumiati, said. The nine-year-old boy died in the intensive care unit only an hour after being admitted, but was buried before the ministry could run blood tests. The death of the two children could indicate the development of a new bird flu cluster, Health Minister Siti Fadilah Supari said Friday. "The local test from the victim in Pamulang is bird flu positive. The symptoms of the virus are very similar to previous clusters we've had. The parents are also suffering from flu, and we are giving them a full dose of Tamiflu now," Siti said. The family lived near a poultry slaughterhouse. after a week of caring for two siblings who were confirmed to have died of bird flu. The 25-year-old woman from Ujungberung Hospital in Bandung was put in isolation at Bandung's Hasan Sadikin Hospital on Thursday night. The siblings, a girl aged 10 and 18-year-old male, are considered the third bird flu cluster in the province. "After considering her contact with dead bird flu victims, we declared her a suspected bird flu case. But she is still fully conscious, her breathing problems are not too serious and she's not experiencing chest pain," the chief of the Bird Flu Management team at Hasan Sadikin Hospital, Hadi Yusuf, told The Jakarta Post. He said she was put in isolation according to instructions from Health Ministry officials, and that her blood samples had been sent to Jakarta for testing. The head of West Java's Environmental Health Office subdivision, Fatimah Resmiati, said a positive test for the virus would raise the possibility of the first human-to-human transmission. Almost all deaths in Indonesia have been traced to infected poultry. Health Ministry data puts the number of bird flu deaths at 37 of the 50 confirmed cases since last July. At least 26 of the deaths occurred this year. Siti said the government would cull poultry in and around the area where the bird flu victims had lived, and reminded the public to minimize contact with poultry. "And please observe the people around you, particularly those who have contact with poultry so that early treatment can be implemented," she said. World Health Organization spokeswoman Sari P. Setiogi said her office had not been informed of the suspected infection of the nurse in Bandung. |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Okay is this right? A girl10 and boy 18 both treated and tested pos for bf died, the nurse 25 treated these two and is now sick with posible bf, a neighbor of these two is also sick or has died of bf.
Then you have a girl-7 and a boy-9, neither have been confirmed yet, the boy died within an hour or so of getting to the hosp but no tests were done, they waited TWO DAYS to test the girl, but she was pos in local tests. Now both her parents (presumably not related to each other) are in the hospital and suffering bf consistant symptoms.
These are two different clusters, and if the parents or the nurse are confirmed positive, one or both of these would represent H2H outside a blood relation.
|
|
pugmom
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 415 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
yes, and it gets worse. Read Dr. Niman's link below--the latest is that 7 members of this family most likely have it, or have had it..
|
|
jpc
|
|
kparcell
Valued Member Location: Florida Joined: June 03 2006 Status: Offline Points: 541 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi everyone, long time listener - first time poster.
I very much admire the good work being done in this space. Here are a couple of thoughts aimed at helping to improve the dialogue: Just as regular people don't understand much about the distinctions between 'h2h' and 'efficient h2h', so do most journalists NOT understand, and consequently news reports are very unreliable when quoting officials about h2h issues, especially news reports that are translations. Most journalists - everywhere - are pressured to "bend" the news, both to sell their stories and to sell the agenda of their bosses, which includes trying to sell papers and advertising by being sensational, so this is another reason that the news reports are not entirely reliable. Indonesia faces very real and terrible problems, and bird flu is near the bottom of the list. Plain old hunger leads the list (complicated recently by earthquakes and volcanos) and so the culling of domestic fowl and pigs to slow bird flu is a real and present disaster that will cost many many lives. This is not to say that Indonesian officials are indifferent to the danger of pandemic, but there are uncounted thousands of people dying right now that need their help, so the lack of attention to bird flu is not proceeding from a conspiracy but from a lack of sufficient support from the rest of the world for the present crises. I pray for the hearts of the very sad people at WHO whom must decide about a level four alert, because such a declaration could cost thousands of lives as culling efforts increase. Can you imagine what it must be like to dedicate your life to helping people and then be pressured to make a distinction that will almost certainly cost many lives but possible save none? In fact, the greatest support I've received for my own work on bird flu is from a UN sponsored disaster conference and from an Indonesian field worker. I'll give you a link below to my website and I'll open a discussion about my bird flu work soon. In a sentence, it's about creating local marketplaces that will help deliver essential commodities in a global crisis. IMHO, the fact that even this fringe issue receives support from global organizations signifies to me that the people whom we hope are working with the best intentions ARE working with the best intentions. I suspect that a lot of these folks come here for information. Of course, this space is bound to have many posts that are confusing and frightened and frightening, but I'm convinced that working together we can keep it together and be exactly the kind of tool we all need. In this regard, I hope that everyone thinks twice before posting speculations, especially guesses based on translations of foreign news reports: ask yourself if you are adding to reliable information, or perhaps helping by offering a clarification or asking for one. What we write here may or may not matter in the big picture, but it will certainly matter right now to the others here, it can help us all keep it together and advance our efforts...or not. It certainly has helped me. Kevin J. Parcell forever.net |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Kparcell, thanks for your insightful thoughts. I agree that some of the posts here are frightening and some are inaccurate. However, some of us here have gotten pretty good at decoding news reports out of Indonesia. Usually at first there is some confusion as to how old or the sex of a person with bf is, but we usually still figure it out long before it's reported on any other reliable news source. In essence we get the gist of what is going on, whether or not the minutia of the details are completely correct. In speaking for myself I think there are others here that would agree, it's not as important for us to know that a child was a female or a male or they were 10 years or 9 years old. In a situation like a potential flu pandemic that could traverse the world in one or two days, I want information immediatly, I don't care about total accuracy.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Kparnel, I didn't mean to come off sounding like I didn't appreciate your post, because I do. I hope you'll continue to post here and help those that post here and lurk here to keep on top of the situation. I think your input is invaluable to the board, so thanks a ton, keep posting and welcome. I'm going to check out your site right now.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
As of 5:30PM eastern today, I couldn't find any new stories on the nurses H5 status. Anyone find anything??
|
|
pheasant
Admin Group Joined: May 20 2006 Location: Florida Status: Offline Points: 9851 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
hey doug ...look at my post below ,from yesterday morning ....i said it first
|
|
The only thing we have to fear, is fear itself......FDR
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Hi Kevin,
Welcome to the forum. You are a very wise person. I appreciate your comments. I agree with you. I have tried to imagine the implications of the WHO increasing the alert to a higher level. It seems that if the level is increeased, there will be financial turmoil for the world and the implications for Indonesia are overwhelming.
I am guilty of assuming that the WHO has been hiding information however, you have put things into perspective.
I visited your website and found your information there to be very educational. I actually feel hopeful that we may have solutions to some of the problems that we will potentially face.
I would encourage others to visit Kevin's wesite.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Welcome to the Forum Kevin. There is a documented instance of a supposed riot in San Francisco which was being broadcast on a news station. Problem was, that a listener parked at the stop sign at the intersection where this "riot" was occuring noticed nothing happening at all. In fact, there was nothing happenng and the story was made up. A recent article discussed the fact that many major news media reporters are under the gun to provide news when there is no news, and a few, have recently been found venturing into tabloid land, whereas these are big name media companies. I am avoiding naming names. You are going to see, I have seen already this happening in Avian reports. You are going to see misinformation from both sides and individuals as well as organizations making "errors." One rather convenient error is to reclassify things; move reporting Avian to not diagnoising as Avian but pneumonia. In China, there was a huge incidence of pneumonia cases in several instances which could have been Avian, or are Avian. Secondly, WHO is (not to be non-supportive) altering the classification system. Basically, a Level 4 means - correct me if I am wrong - we have a Pandemic. This economic, political, and government reprucussions of this are serious. So huge, it is felt that a full phase "Plan" which includes many many specific steps be taken, before the publically is told of a Pandemic. is now in place. This is not a guess. This is a fact. You can research on other posts the rather complex evolving criteria which must be in place before they will announce there is Avian in Alaska. Recently I have spoken to people who are in a state of panic. This is not well covered by the press, but already some individuals are losing it in areas such as Romania where denial of the obvious can only go so far. Understand, we must make every effort in this forum to verify news the best we can, from data which is true and that which is not. Otherwise you will simply frighten a lot of people prematurely. We have not reached a state where we have infectious transmission of the virus or sufficient mutation of the virus to make it virulent enough, contagious enough, to break from the clusters, and begin its 6 month march around the globe. But being prepared is essential. And organizing community groups and resources is something to consider if the government is overwhealmed and simply cannot help. That may be one of the most important considerations here. There may not be anyone to refer you to if for some reason they cannot respond quickly enough to a Pandemic. Numerous health and government authorities have stated "We are not ready or prepared to handle a Pandemic." Quite frankly, and differently than other posts, I respect them for their candor and attempting to make the public aware, there is a a limit, and will be limits to what they can do to help. If I were to emphasize a rather painful slogan I made up... it would be... stop being scared and get prepared. |
|
klavawithcin
V.I.P. Member Joined: May 24 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 54 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
The nine-year-old boy died in the intensive care unit only an hour after being admitted, but was buried before the ministry could run blood tests. This continues to escape me. If they have the person, take the blood before the body is moved. |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Some things are obvious to us here, the information was not intended to be released.
|
|
kparcell
Valued Member Location: Florida Joined: June 03 2006 Status: Offline Points: 541 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Here is a link to WHO phase alert chart that shows that we are currently NOT at pandemic level. It may be important to discuss and refine the meanings of these levels, but it is also important to know that we may never see this virus achieve pandemic. Now is the time to prepare, not the time to panic.
In regards to preparation, here is a link to an initiative I'm directing that I believe illustrates that we can achieve good things working together: BIRDSHOT. Thanks to everyone who responded to my first post. You are all wonderful and I'm very heartened to see that you are working together here to make a positive difference by sorting through all the difficult and constantly changing information. Kevin Parcell forever.net |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
kparcell, most of us who post here do not believe we are at a pandemic level yet, however most of us here also do not believe we are at pandemic level three any longer, either. Read the definitions for level 3, 4,5 and 6. By the WHO's own definitions we are currently at level 4 and possibly level 5.
|
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
BTW kparcell, I cked out your web site and your Bird Shot, my opinion this would maybe be a good idea, but first we have to get local governments to even acknowledge that there is a bf threat. I know my local government in small town america is run by some yokels that I some times wonder how much they paid for their high school diplomas.
|
|
kparcell
Valued Member Location: Florida Joined: June 03 2006 Status: Offline Points: 541 |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Thank you, Rodin, I agree that Birdshot is maybe a good idea, and I'm not trying to be facetious. It's just that we don't know, as you say, about these things. In any case, the Birdshot initiative can only help, I think.
Like you, I live in a town where the leadership on pandemic flu preparedness is less than I would like, and so raising the global alert level to phase 4 right now would probably help in my town because more people would start to prepare. But the global leaders have more to worry about than my town, and perhaps they believe that the risk of raising the alert level globally could be greater than the benefit. In fact, after infected birds arrive in North America, it is possible that keeping the level at 3 (supposing that it is still at 3) would help to reduce a rush to prepare that could put too much pressure on food resources. After all, the world would possibly see food shortages if a significant number of Americans suddenly try to store several months of their normal consumption (I mean store in our cupboards, we already have it on our butts). I think that the best course of action, and this is just my own opinion, is for the WHO to continue to hold the phase alert at 3 until there is a better understanding among the general public of the meanings of the different alert levels and that a phase 4 alert is not a great change from phase 3, and in this way they can minimize the cost in lives of raising the alert level. Dr. Niman and others note that the WHO has already taken the actions that correspond to a phase 4 alert, and so perhaps this cautious path is just what they are doing. Kevin Parcell |
|
Guests
Guest Group |
Post Options
Thanks(0)
|
Kevin, I agree with you concerning keeping the alert level at three, sort of. One of my concerns is though that once the level goes to four, it won't be but a matter of days or few weeks before it goes to 6. I'm also concerned that not enough people around the globe are preparing. The more people that are prepared the less impacting a pandemic would be on our way of life. If our US government would make 'louder' announcements instead of just the 'whispers' we've heard about preparedness then perhaps we would avoid a situation where many lives are lost. But then again, Katrina taught us that even when the announcements are made not enough people listen. I think in the US and other countries like the UK, Australia etc, people have become so used to the government taking care of them, that they just cannot fathom something like this happening to them. Even now, I myself, with knowing what I know about this virus, can scarcely believe we could have a pandemic that could take the lives of so many. |
|
Post Reply | Page <12 |
Tweet
|
Forum Jump | Forum Permissions You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot create polls in this forum You can vote in polls in this forum |