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Schools- your thoughts?

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Printed Date: March 28 2024 at 5:55am


Topic: Schools- your thoughts?
Posted By: AandEM
Subject: Schools- your thoughts?
Date Posted: July 06 2020 at 8:36pm

Anyone with first-hand experience with opening schools in-person?  Thoughts on K-12 vs University?  If you were a teacher with at-risk family members, what would you do?  I talked a lot about what was coming, starting in early February.  Now I am getting bombarded with questions from fellow teachers.  So... any advice?




Replies:
Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: July 06 2020 at 9:09pm

Hi there! I am a teacher — I took last year off from teaching 4th grade to help out my parents and finish my Master’s program. Now, I am supposed to complete my Master’s with student teaching in the fall. I am at-risk (asthma and scarring in my lungs), and I am terrified about going into the classroom — I live in Arizona, where as far as we know, Ducey seems determined to put kids in the classroom come August 17th.

I am currently in the midst of trying to decide whether to do this, or defer my student teaching (and therefore, my graduation) until I feel safe in the classroom.

This is not an easy decision! :(



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 7:45am

It is such a difficult decision! We have to make this choice without a clear picture of the plan/options. I was going to consider how things were looking in the local area, but at this point, I doubt it matters much with things changing so quickly. Our opening is Aug. 7th. I have so many unanswered questions, like... sick days? Are we teaching both in person and online simultaneously? They mostly say we will address these at our first day staffing. I certainly dont have any answers, but good luck in whatever you decide, and thanks for your reply!



Posted By: roni3470
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 12:25pm

I am a Director of a part time school program and former teacher and have two high schoolers.  I think in Colorado we will start on a staggered schedule.  The plan seems to be MT half the kids then W to clean then THF for the other half of the kids.  Or they may decide to have mornings and those kids leave and then afternoons so that no group eating together occurs.  Either way, they are keeping kids in limited groups and likely having teachers move not kids.  This is all fine and dandy until kids get sick, then the teacher and everywhere that teacher has been will all need 14 days off.  how are they going to manage all of this?  its going to be crazy and I assume schools will close again after the first outbreak in each school!



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NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred


Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 1:35pm

This is going to be the most difficult decision for anyone who deals with the education of our kids.  I am a 22 year veteran  science teacher in Biology and Chemistry   I am also in a high risk category.  I did get COV 19 in February  from one of my students      It is really upsetting me that everyone keeps quoting that the kids are not a high risk and are not getting it. Well what happens when we open the doors to schools and everyone is back and we are wrong about  the level of illness in the young. We are seeing a hugh spike in the 20 to 30 range right now because we put them all together even in open air with masks on!!!  During riots and  protests Doesn’t that speak volumes as to what will happen this fall with the 2 nd wave starts on top of flu season.  What am I missing here???



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 1:52pm

I agree. It's a no win situation. It's a very simple question, what happens when teachers or students test positive? There doesn't seem to be an answer. 



Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 2:06pm

The answer is people including children may die or have disabilities for the rest of their lives .   I still have lung issues. 5 months out   The student I got it from lost a great deal of weight and still gets intestinal issues on a regular basis. Parents may lose their child. For what I ask???. Why not do virtual at home until the vaccine  comes out. It is 8 months away at best.  And  may be sooner



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 2:42pm





I have doubts that there ever will be a vaccine.....

Maybe teachers should move from class to class, rather than the children,moving on mass after lessons....wearing masks........ Always....

(I'm not a teacher....)



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 2:49pm

Tragic. I'm afraid people wont care until it happens in their own school. 

I read the return plans, and they say very little that's concrete information we can count on. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 3:06pm





Sorry wrong thread.....lol



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 07 2020 at 5:09pm

Student tests positive, or teacher tests positive, or cafeteria worker, janitor or admin Secretary...school will shut down for two days "deep cleaning" repeat ad nauseam... this is my prediction for the upcoming school year.  Disclosure: I homeschooled my son as a single parent until university. He graduated with a Geography degree as his major, political science as his minor. Married now and runs his own business. I do not have a degree, just 20 years in the US Navy, so it's doable!



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 7:45am

You're right, it will be an endless cycle. I'm wondering how likely it will be for kids to be tested? I expect a number of parents will just ignore symptoms, ignore exposures and pretend everything is normal. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:44pm

My daughter was terrified sending my granddaughter to school, 

And we don't have any cases,

So I doubt I would put any of my own at risk.......




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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 2:59pm

I was on our school board for 5 years. I would never bring kids back into an environment like this. Our state is one of the ones growing worse. I would not want it on my conscience if a child died.  I already had a co-worker die this week from covid-19. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 3:16pm

I find it interesting that schools supply meals for the children,

Here all kids take their own lunch box,

Teachers look through it to see if it's a balanced meal, IE,no candy etc..... 

Parents gets sent letter if not a balanced meal.....




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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:14pm

Carbon- that is fascinating to me. I can't even imagine telling an American parent to improve the quality of the lunch they send in for their child. That would not go over well! 



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:18pm

Penham- I've been giving that more thought.  The gravity of the choice forced onto the reopening committees is so daunting. Truly life or death decisions must be made without even having a clear picture of the situation, plus immense political pressure. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 08 2020 at 9:31pm

[QUOTE=AandEM]

Carbon- that is fascinating to me. I can't even imagine telling an American parent to improve the quality of the lunch they send in for their child. That would not go over well! 

It didn't go down well with my Daughter who is very health conscious....

When  the school Heath person told her that my granddaughters BMI was a bit high......she only 5.....




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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 10:31am

Trying to figure out my student teaching is hard — trying to figure out my own kids’ education is even harder!

I have a son who will be in 11th grade and a daughter who will be in 8th.  My son has Asperger’s (high-functioning autism), and my daughter has ADHD. Online school did NOT go well for either last quarter.

My son has FINALLY turned the corner on socialization thanks to his theater classes. He auditioned for Theater 3 and made it — he was so excited! But their school (a charter school) is basically penalizing students for going online and taking away their electives. He wouldn’t get Theater. He DESPERATELY wants to go back (he has also developed severe anxiety disorder since school stopped).  

My daughter HATED online school and is begging me to homeschool her if we decide to not have her go in person. She would be happy as a clam, but I know that if my son went back in person later in the year, she’d be miserable at home alone.

I’ve been having anxiety attacks because I can’t figure out what the best solution is. I am so worried that whatever we choose will be the wrong decision. :(  And AZ’s governor is NO help — cases are exploding and all he did was close bars and guns. It’s not impacting numbers at all. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:04pm






BeachMama,

My heart goes out to all of you over there,

Whatever you decide for your family will be the best decision,

If I was in your position,i would get together with a few friends, home school a few children who you know and trust, that way your children will have class room experience,you could share the teaching load with other Moms....who no doubt are in your position.....

Take care,

 my very best wishes for all of you......

Carbon20......





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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:32pm

I just don't think it's a good idea to open the schools. The schools can't even keep head lice or the regular flu under control. Why would we trust them to keep Covid-19 under control? And now with this new virus the kids are getting AFTER the Covid-19 virus is something else again to deal with. 



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:36pm

What new virus are kids getting?



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:43pm







The Independent: Teachers’ union ‘double-dog dares’ Trump to sit in class during pandemic.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-schools-reopening-class-children-coronavirus-pandemic-us-a9611261.html - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/trump-schools-reopening-class-children-coronavirus-pandemic-us-a9611261.html



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 4:52pm

Originally posted by Tabitha111 Tabitha111 wrote:

What new virus are kids getting?

I don't even know if they have a name for it. They have been reporting it on the national news. The kids will get it AFTER they have Covid-19. And it's pretty bad. Of course not all kids get it, just some. And they don't know why.



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 7:25pm

Oh okay, yes that's MSIS. MULTI SYSTEM INFLAMMATORY SYNDROME, similar to Kawasaki disease. 



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 8:22pm

I hate the way that politics has invaded into what is already such a tough decision. I wish there was a crystal ball. I do go back to my thoughts that safety has to come first. Learning gains can always be addressed. I feel like even with my decision to go back (have no choice financially) it's going to be a chaotic year that most likely ends with us back on line anyway. I have 35 students in a class. My friend who is a nurse says we might make it to October. She says health departments aren't going to care what politicians have to say, and that schools will be forced to follow health department directives in spite of Gov. wishes. But, who knows.  



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 09 2020 at 11:02pm

Reuters: Hong Kong to suspend all schools due to spike in coronavirus cases, media reports.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong/hong-kong-to-suspend-all-schools-due-to-spike-in-coronavirus-cases-media-reports-idUSKBN24B0GT?feedType=mktg&feedName=worldNews&WT.mc_id=Partner-Google - https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-hongkong/hong-kong-to-suspend-all-schools-due-to-spike-in-coronavirus-cases-media-reports-idUSKBN24B0GT?feedType=mktg&feedName=worldNews&WT.mc_id=Partner-Google



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: July 10 2020 at 5:55am

AandEM, are you considering using a face shield in addition to a mask in class?  I've told both my SIL and niece, both teachers, both have autoimmune diseases, that maybe the best course of action for them is to use a mask and face shield. 



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 10 2020 at 6:19am

Yes, that sounds like a good idea. I'm shopping options. My biggest frustration is, as of right now, masks will be optional for students. 



Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:46am

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

AandEM, are you considering using a face shield in addition to a mask in class?  I've told both my SIL and niece, both teachers, both have autoimmune diseases, that maybe the best course of action for them is to use a mask and face shield. 

WM, I'd even consider close-fitting eye goggles.  Eyes are an under-reported entry route for SARS-CoV2 infection.  

If a classroom becomes a swirling atmosphere of SARS-CoV2 droplet nuclei, eye protection is important.  Face shields make a lot of sense. 

Droplets that are < 5 μm in diameter are called droplet nuclei or aerosols. These particles are so small and buoyant that they remain airborne for long periods of time and often float very long distances before evaporating. Transmission occurs when a person inhales droplet nuclei that are suspended in the air.

https://asm.org/Articles/2020/April/COVID-19-Transmission-Dynamics - https://asm.org/Articles/2020/April/COVID-19-Transmission-Dynamics

 



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: Thorne!
Date Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:37pm

Trump and DeVos are throwing kids and teachers under the bus.

Link:  https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/10/trump-schools-backlash-coronavirus-356721?fbclid=IwAR0jvpdX4osKmCZ6_GA_sYEcJh9UI43ShHCL4VooV6c_DBYW0ygbkkfFnio - https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/10/trump-schools-backlash-coronavirus-356721?fbclid=IwAR0jvpdX4osKmCZ6_GA_sYEcJh9UI43ShHCL4VooV6c_DBYW0ygbkkfFnio

“Threats are not helpful,” Joy Hofmeister, the Republican state superintendent of public instruction in Oklahoma, told POLITICO on Friday. “We do not need to be schooled on why it’s important to reopen.”



Both Trump and Education Secretary Betsy DeVos have  https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/08/trump-schools-reopening-federal-funding-352311" style="box-sizing: border-box; color: rgb(0, 123, 199); text-decoration: none; transition: all 0.25s ease 0s; background-color: transparent; touch-action: manipulation; - issued federal funding threats to schools that don’t fully reopen. On Friday, Trump went a step further in blasting online learning — which many school districts and colleges are planning to use this fall as an alternative or supplement to in-person instruction.



Posted By: Thorne!
Date Posted: July 10 2020 at 8:39pm

I'm a teacher. My wife is a type 1 diabetic. One of the five boys we adopted has serious asthma. And here we are. Most third world countries are doing a better job.



Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 3:11am

Sympathies Thorne!  What a scumbag!



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 4:02am

https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/10/larry-kudlow-schools-reopening-not-that-hard-sot-vpx-tsr.cnn - https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2020/07/10/larry-kudlow-schools-reopening-not-that-hard-sot-vpx-tsr.cnn


What a callous disregard for his fellow citizens.......

I can not believe what I'm seeing and hearing....



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:21am

Originally posted by AandEM AandEM wrote:

Yes, that sounds like a good idea. I'm shopping options. My biggest frustration is, as of right now, masks will be optional for students. 

My neice teaches 4th graders in SC.  She says even if mask are made mandatory it would be impossible to get them to wear them all day.

Her principle has already made noises about scaring the kids by wearing a face shield. My niece said that she had her doctor send a letter that she must do everything she can to avoid contracting covid (she has autoimmune).  No union to call in but she said she'll call in lawyers if she has to.




Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:23am

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

AandEM, are you considering using a face shield in addition to a mask in class?  I've told both my SIL and niece, both teachers, both have autoimmune diseases, that maybe the best course of action for them is to use a mask and face shield. 

WM, I'd even consider close-fitting eye goggles.  Eyes are an under-reported entry route for SARS-CoV2 infection.  

If a classroom becomes a swirling atmosphere of SARS-CoV2 droplet nuclei, eye protection is important.  Face shields make a lot of sense. 

Droplets that are < 5 μm in diameter are called droplet nuclei or aerosols. These particles are so small and buoyant that they remain airborne for long periods of time and often float very long distances before evaporating. Transmission occurs when a person inhales droplet nuclei that are suspended in the air.

https://asm.org/Articles/2020/April/COVID-19-Transmission-Dynamics - https://asm.org/Articles/2020/April/COVID-19-Transmission-Dynamics

 


Thanks for that CRS.  Both wear glasses so it would be hard to get a tight fit with goggles. So it will likely be full face shields.  I'm not too worried about SIL.  She's in Rhode Island and they have a good strong union.  I am worried about my niece who's in South Carolina and has no teacher's union.  But she's already threatened to call in lawyers if her principle gives her too hard a time about it.




Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 8:34am

This is a long read, but good info - this is from Northern Virginia.


"As posted by a teacher friend of one of the FB teacher group (6,800 FCPS teachers)


From Joe Morice, daughters in 8th & 10th grade in our Centreville Pyramid:


To our fellow FCPS families, this is it gang, 5 days until the 2 days in school vs. 100% virtual decision. Let’s talk it out, in my traditional mammoth TL/DR form.


Like all of you, I’ve seen my feed become a flood of anxiety and faux expertise. You’ll get no presumption of expertise here. This is how I am looking at and considering this issue and the positions people have taken in my feed and in the hundred or so FCPS discussion groups that have popped up. The lead comments in quotes are taken directly from my feed and those boards. Sometimes I try to rationalize them. Sometimes I’m just punching back at the void.


Full disclosure, we initially chose the 2 days option and are now having serious reservations. As I consider the positions and arguments I see in my feed, these are where my mind goes. Of note, when I started working on this piece at 12:19 PM today the COVID death tally in the United States stood at 133,420.


“My kids want to go back to school.”


I challenge that position. I believe what the kids desire is more abstract. I believe what they want is a return to normalcy. They want their idea of yesterday. And yesterday isn’t on the menu.


“I want my child in school so they can socialize.”


This was the principle reason for our 2 days decision. As I think more on it though, what do we think ‘social’ will look like? There aren’t going to be any lunch table groups, any lockers, any recess games, any study halls, any sitting next to friends, any talking to people in the hallway, any dances. All of that is off the menu. So, when we say that we want the kids to benefit from the social experience, what are we deluding ourselves into thinking in-building socialization will actually look like in the Fall?


“My kid is going to be left behind.”


Left behind who? The entire country is grappling with the same issue, leaving all children in the same quagmire. Who exactly would they be behind? I believe the rhetorical answer to that is “They’ll be behind where they should be,” to which I’ll counter that “where they should be” is a fictional goal post that we as a society have taken as gospel because it maps to standardized tests which are used to grade schools and counties as they chase funding.


“Classrooms are safe.”


At the current distancing guidelines from FCPS middle and high schools would have no more than 12 people (teachers + students) in a classroom (I acknowledge this number may change as FCPS considers the Commonwealth’s 3 ft with a mask vs. 6 ft position, noting that FCPS is all mask regardless of the distance). For the purpose of this discussion we’ll say classes run 45 minutes.


I posed the following question to 40 people today, representing professional and management roles in corporations, government agencies, and military commands: “Would your company or command have a 12 person, 45 minute meeting in a conference room?”


100% of them said no, they would not. These are some of their answers:


“No. Until further notice we are on Zoom.”

“(Our company) doesn’t allow us in (company space).”

“Oh hell no.”

“No absolutely not.”

“Is there a percentage lower than zero?”

“Something of that size would be virtual.”


We do not even consider putting our office employees into the same situation we are contemplating putting our children into. And let’s drive this point home: there are instances here when commanding officers will not put soldiers, ACTUAL SOLDIERS, into the kind of indoor environment we’re contemplating for our children. For me this is as close to a ‘kill shot’ argument as there is in this entire debate. How do we work from home because buildings with recycled air are not safe, because we don’t trust other people to not spread the virus, and then with the same breath send our children into buildings?


“Children only die .0016 of the time.”


First, conceding we’re an increasingly morally bankrupt society, but when did we start talking about children’s lives, or anyone’s lives, like this? This how the villain in movies talks about mortality, usually 10-15 minutes before the good guy kills him.


If you’re in this camp, and I acknowledge that many, many people are, I’m asking you to consider that number from a slightly different angle.


FCPS has 189,000 children. .0016 of that is 302. 302 dead children are the Calvary Hill you’re erecting your argument on. So, let’s agree to do this: stop presenting this as a data point. If this is your argument, I challenge you to have courage equal to your conviction. Go ahead, plant a flag on the internet and say, “Only 302 children will die.” No one will. That’s the kind action on social media that gets you fired from your job. And I trust our social media enclave isn’t so careless and irresponsible with life that it would even, for even a millisecond, enter any of your minds to make such an argument.


Considered another way: You’re presented with a bag with 189,000 $1 bills. You’re told that in the bag are 302 random bills, they look and feel just like all the others, but each one of those bills will kill you. Do you take the money out of the bag?


Same argument, applied to the 12,487 teachers in FCPS (per Wikipedia), using the ‘children’s multiplier’ of .0016 (all of us understanding the adult mortality rate is higher). That’s 20 teachers. That’s the number you’re talking about. It’s very easy to sit behind a keyboard and diminish and dismiss the risk you’re advocating other people assume. Take a breath and think about that.


If you want to advocate for 2 days a week, look, I’m looking for someone to convince me. But please, for the love of God, drop things like this from your argument. Because the people I know who’ve said things like this, I know they’re better people than this. They’re good people under incredible stress who let things slip out as their frustration boils over. So, please do the right thing and move on from this, because one potential outcome is that one day, you’re going to have to stand in front of St. Peter and answer for this, and that’s not going to be conversation you enjoy.


“Hardly any kids get COVID.”


(Deep sigh) Yes, that is statistically true as of this writing. But it is a cherry-picked argument because you’re leaving out an important piece.


One can reasonably argue that, due to the school closures in March, children have had the least EXPOSURE to COVID. In other words, closing schools was the one pandemic mitigation action we took that worked. There can be no discussion of the rate of diagnosis within children without also acknowledging they were among our fastest and most quarantined people. Put another way, you cannot cite the effect without acknowledging the cause.


“The flu kills more people every year.”


(Deep sigh). First of all, no, it doesn’t. Per the CDC, United States flu deaths average 20,000 annually. COVID, when I start writing here today, has killed 133,420 in six months.


And when you mention the flu, do you mean the disease that, if you’re suspected of having it, everyone, literally everyone in the country tells you stay the f- away from other people? You mean the one where parents are pretty sure their kids have it but send them to school anyway because they have a meeting that day, the one that every year causes massive f-ing outbreaks in schools because schools are petri dishes and it causes kids to miss weeks of school and leaves them out of sports and band for a month? That one? Because you’re right - the flu kills people every year. It does, but you’re ignoring the why. It’s because there are people who are a--holes who don’t care about infecting other people. In that regard it’s a perfect comparison to COVID.


“Almost everyone recovers.”


You’re confusing “release from the hospital” and “no longer infected” with “recovered.” I’m fortunate to only know two people who have had COVID. One my age and one my dad’s age. The one my age described it as “absolute hell” and although no longer infected cannot breathe right. The one my dad’s age was in the hospital for 13 weeks, had to have a trach ring put in because she could no longer be on a ventilator, and upon finally getting home and being faced with incalculable time in rehab told my mother, “I wish I had died.”


While I’m making every effort to reach objectivity, on this particular point, you don’t know what the f- you’re talking about.


“If people get sick, they get sick.”


First, you mistyped. What you intended to say was “If OTHER people get sick, they get sick.” And shame on you.


“I’m not going to live my life in fear.”


You already live your life in fear. For your health, your family’s health, your job, your retirement, terrorists, extremists, one political party or the other being in power, the new neighbors, an unexpected home repair, the next sunrise. What you meant to say was, “I’m not prepared to add ANOTHER fear,” and I’ve got news for you: that ship has sailed. It’s too late. There are two kinds of people, and only two: those that admit they’re afraid, and those that are lying to themselves about it.


As to the fear argument, fear is the reason you wait up when your kids stay out late, it’s the reason you tell your kids not to dive in the shallow water, to look both ways before crossing the road. Fear is the respect for the wide world that we teach our children. Except in this instance, for reasons no one has been able to explain to me yet.


“FCPS leadership sucks.”


I will summarize my view of the School Board thusly: if the 12 of you aren’t getting into a room together because it represents a risk, don’t tell me it’s OK for our kids. I understand your arguments, that we need the 2 days option for parents who can’t work from home, kids who don’t have internet or computer access, kids who needs meals from the school system, kids who need extra support to learn, and most tragically for kids who are at greater risk of abuse by being home. All very serious, all very real issues, all heartbreaking. No argument.


But you must first lead by example. Because you’re failing when it comes to optics. All your meetings are online. What our children see is all of you on a Zoom telling them it’s OK for them to be exactly where you aren’t. I understand you’re not PR people, but you really should think about hiring some.


“I talked it over with my kids.”

Let’s put aside for a moment the concept of adults effectively deferring this decision to children, the same children who will continue to stuff things into a full trash can rather than change it out. Yes, those hygienic children.


Listen, my 15 year old daughter wants a sport car, which she’s not getting next year because it would be dangerous to her and to others. Those kinds of decisions are our job. We step in and decide as parents, we don’t let them expose themselves to risks because their still developing and screen addicted brains narrow their understanding of cause and effect.


We as parents and adults serve to make difficult decisions. Sometimes those are in the form of lessons, where we try to steer kids towards the right answer and are willing to let them make a mistake in the hopes of teaching better decision making the next time around. This is not one of those moments. The stakes are too high for that. This is a “the adults are talking” moment. Kids are not mature enough for this moment. That is not an attack on your child. It is a broad statement about all children. It is true of your children and it was true when we were children. We need to be doing that thinking here, and “Johnny wants to see Bobby at school” cannot be the prevailing element in the equation.


“The teachers need to do their job.”

How is it that the same society which abruptly shifted to virtual students only three months ago, and offered glowing endorsements of teachers stating, “we finally understand how difficult your job is,” has now shifted to “screw you, do your job.” There are myriad problems with that position but for the purposes of this piece let’s simply go with, “You’re not looking for a teacher, you’re looking for the babysitter you feel your property tax payment entitles you to.”


“Teachers have a greater chance to being killed by a car than they do of dying from COVID.”


(Eye roll) Per the Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS), the U.S. see approximately 36,000 auto fatalities a year. Again, there have been 133,420 COVID deaths in the United States through 12:09 July 10, 2020. So no, they do not have a great chance of being killed in a car accident.


And, if you want to take the actual environment into consideration, the odds of a teacher being killed in a car accident in their classroom, you know, the environment we’re actually talking about, that’s right around 0%.


“If the grocery store workers can be onsite what are the teachers afraid of?”


(Deep breath) A grocery store worker, who absolutely risks exposure, has either six feet of space or a plexiglass shield between them and individual adult customers who can grasp their own mortality whose transactions can be completed in moments, in a 40,000 SF space. 


A teacher is with 11 ‘customers’ who have not an inkling what mortality is, for 45 minutes, in a 675 SF space, six times a day. 


Just stop.


“Teachers are choosing remote because they don’t want to work.”


(Deep breaths) Many teachers are opting to be remote. That is not a vacation. They’re requesting to do their job at a safer site. Just like many, many people who work in buildings with recycled air have done. And likely the building you’re not going into has a newer and better serviced air system than our schools.


Of greater interest to me is the number of teachers choosing the 100% virtual option for their children. The people who spend the most time in the buildings are the same ones electing not to send their children into those buildings. That’s something I pay attention to.


“I wasn’t prepared to be a parent 24/7” and “I just need a break.”


I truly, deeply respect that honesty. Truth be told, both arguments have crossed my mind. Pre COVID, I routinely worked from home 1 – 2 days a week. The solace was nice. When I was in the office, I had an actual office, a room with a door I could close, where I could focus. During the quarantine that hasn’t always been the case. I’ve been frustrated, I’ve been short, I’ve gone to just take a drive and get the hell away for a moment and been disgusted when one of the kids sees me and asks me to come for a ride, robbing me of those minutes of silence. You want to hear silence. I get it. I really, really do.


Here’s another version of that, admittedly extreme. What if one of our kids becomes one of the 302? What’s that silence going to sound like? What if you have one of those matted frames where you add the kid’s school picture every year? What if you don’t get to finish the pictures?


“What does your gut tell you to do?”


Shawn and I have talked ad infinitum about all of these and other points. Two days ago, at mid-discussion I said, “Stop, right now, gut answer, what is it,” and we both said, “virtual.”


A lot of the arguments I hear people making for the 2 days sound like we’re trying to talk ourselves into ignoring our instincts, they are almost exclusively, “We’re doing 2 days, but…”. There’s a fantastic book by Gavin de Becker, The Gift of Fear, which I’ll minimize for you thusly: your gut instinct is a hardwired part of your brain and you should listen to it. In the introduction he talks about elevators, and how, of all living things, humans are the only ones that would voluntarily get into a soundproof steel box with a potential predator just so they could skip a flight of stairs.


I keep thinking that the 2 days option is the soundproof steel box. I welcome, damn, beg, anyone to convince me otherwise.


At the time I started writing at 12:09 PM, 133,420 Americans had died from COVID. Upon completing this draft at 7:04 PM, that number rose to 133,940.


520 Americans died of COVID while I was working on this. In seven hours.


The length of a school day."




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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 10:11am

I think those were very valid points. I kept telling everyone during the early quarantine,  this is the easy part. Decisions are made for us. This new part in infinity  harder. Teaching in a classroom isn't comparable, risk wise, to many other jobs. Certainly not as risky as work on COVID wards, but much riskier than simply in an office with adults.  The main difference is we will have little control over our own work environments. I've been sacrificing a lot to avoid risks. I've attended a few events, like son's outdoor graduation, because the risk vs. reward checks out. We have to consider the job of teaching a completely different way. Many hours of risk x 5 days/week. It changes the result for me, but I have to keep my job. It's all just so sad and frustrating. 



Posted By: Little House
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 10:20am

Thank you Tabitha, there was a lot of great info in that piece.  I don’t have to decide what environment my kids will be in next year.  They have been homeschooled their whole lives and will be next year as well, but that doesn’t mean that they stay home all the time.  Instead of one decision, we have many.  Do I allow the in-person Chemistry class?  How about the theater group?  The Symphony? Sports? Volunteering? Craft Club?  Reading Club?  Music lessons?  Before the lockdowns started this spring, my family (collectively) saw over 1,000 people a week.  That number obviously has to go down, but by how much? This piece gave me a lot to think about.



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 12:40pm

Little House- I can relate since I homeschooled my son from K-to college...and his senior year we took a trip to Europe for a month! Plus, folks don't  understand the amount of people we interact with. I had one parent tell me I was turning my son into a social misfit by homeschooling him!

I always get the last laugh though..because every SINGLE DAY there was something going on we can attend or go to. I had to put my foot down at times to stay home and get some book work done!

We belonged to a huge homeschooling group and he has life-long friends he made there.
He is a "class clown" type of guy, so always popular and yes, he got into his fair share of mischief, esp in the high school years.

But social misfit...ahhh...nope...In fact when he graduated from college, his photo ended up on the front page of the newspaper because of his charisma...yes...he said "mom, the guy came up and asked my name and I just grabbed my diploma and took off my hat and held them in the air and posed, he took my photo and I knew I'd end up in the paper"

I feel for the parents homeschooling now during this, because they will miss out on a lot.



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: 20Rachel
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 6:08pm

I would keep kids home for this school year.  One year at home could be the difference between life and death.  Hopefully iwithin the year we will know more about Covid a, treatments, vaccines .  Your children may be unhappy at home but at keast they will be alive.     Do not let politics play a part into your decision.  Your children deserve better.  Children need you to make the nest decision.  It may be harder for both parents and children but again one more year could determine the way they live the rest of their luves.  I wish you all the very best and mych live for your families!



Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 6:57pm

Anyone in here with a stake in schools read this

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/09/reopening-schools-coronavirus-pandemic-expert-analysis-politics-2020-355466 - https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/2020/07/09/reopening-schools-coronavirus-pandemic-expert-analysis-politics-2020-355466



Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 6:58pm

My husband and I talked today, and we made the difficult decision of keeping our kids online for the fall. Our son has been suffering from extremely bad anxiety due to being home from school due to his Asperger’s — and their school freaking SUCKS so he’ll lose his Theater 3 elective. They’re pushing for an entirely normal approach to school and their in person program won’t even involve any type of social distancing, no masks, still having 30 kids in a classroom, etc. 

Despite that, we feel that the SAFEST place for them to be is at home. I’m going to give them the option of doing the school’s virtual program, or having a full-on homeschool approach. Whatever they want of the two, they’ll get — if it will keep them happy and engaged, and LEARNING!



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 11 2020 at 9:10pm

9News: Child-to-child transmission of COVID-19 'more apparent' in Victoria.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-victoria-can-children-pass-on-covid19-community-transmission-australia-health/a6c62d64-0797-4719-89ad-2e5ba3036cf3 - https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-victoria-can-children-pass-on-covid19-community-transmission-australia-health/a6c62d64-0797-4719-89ad-2e5ba3036cf3



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 13 2020 at 2:54pm

NPR: Schools Were Closed, Opened ... And Now Closed Again In Hong Kong : Goats and Soda.

https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/07/10/889376184/photos-how-hong-kong-reopened-schools-and-why-it-closed-them-again?ft=nprml&f=1001 - https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2020/07/10/889376184/photos-how-hong-kong-reopened-schools-and-why-it-closed-them-again?ft=nprml&f=1001



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 13 2020 at 7:32pm

Several large corporations in Indiana moved on-line. There will likely be more, but I feel like some will play chicken. The problem with waiting is parents and teachers can't plan I dont see the ones opening in person staying open. 



Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: July 13 2020 at 9:30pm

Originally posted by BeachMama BeachMama wrote:

My husband and I talked today, and we made the difficult decision of keeping our kids online for the fall. Our son has been suffering from extremely bad anxiety due to being home from school due to his Asperger’s — and their school freaking SUCKS so he’ll lose his Theater 3 elective. They’re pushing for an entirely normal approach to school and their in person program won’t even involve any type of social distancing, no masks, still having 30 kids in a classroom, etc. 

Despite that, we feel that the SAFEST place for them to be is at home. I’m going to give them the option of doing the school’s virtual program, or having a full-on homeschool approach. Whatever they want of the two, they’ll get — if it will keep them happy and engaged, and LEARNING!

Thanks for sharing, BM!   These are difficult times for everyone....our students, who will now fall even further behind the world-population in terms of subject mastery than they already were; our parents, who must do double-duty to teach and encourage their own children; and our education infrastructure including teachers like me (STEM, Grades 6-12 and University Undergrad/Grad).  

It really feels like time to experiment with new learning techniques at all levels - the "Socratic" method of teaching (teacher in front of classroom, going on & on) is drawing to a close.  When I recently taught Biology, I employed graduate school level brainstorming tools I learned in an MBA class, and the HS sophomores really got into it!  

I'd love to teach this fall, but I am personally at high-risk due to health conditions, and cannot think of a way to do this safely.  Maybe a "maestro" approach using Zoom?  The instructor having a whole classroom of virtual students, and jazzing up the lesson with engaging clips, surprise lessons, etc.?   Entice them to want to tune in and watch the show! 

I can dream, can't I?  Stay safe, Chuck in AZ (you have probably heard about us lately!!   )



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: Little House
Date Posted: July 14 2020 at 3:42am

LA and San Diego not going back this fall.  

https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507067-la-san-diego-school-system-postpones-reopening-will-continue-online - https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/507067-la-san-diego-school-system-postpones-reopening-will-continue-online

This may pave the way for smaller districts to do the same.



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 14 2020 at 4:09am

ABC News: Al-Taqwa coronavirus outbreak raises questions about schools' safety during pandemic.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-14/al-taqwa-coronavirus-outbreak-schools-reopening-questioned/12452266 - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-14/al-taqwa-coronavirus-outbreak-schools-reopening-questioned/12452266



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 14 2020 at 11:39am



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: Technophobe
Date Posted: July 14 2020 at 1:07pm

                                                           



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How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.


Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: July 14 2020 at 1:32pm

I'm STEM-Certified in AZ, Grades 6-12, and also lecture at universities, from undergrad to PhD students.  I love to teach and use very innovative techniques. 

However, I'm also at high risk for serious COVID-19 complications, so I'm staying out of the classroom this year. 

This is very cautionary:

https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/arizona-teachers-coronavirus-survivors/index.html - https://www.cnn.com/2020/07/14/us/arizona-teachers-coronavirus-survivors/index.html

Let me emphasize this - the US population is NOT taking this seriously!!  Our present surge of cases and deaths is a result of the breakdown in closures, social distancing and other precautions traceable to the Memorial Day weekend.   

Since the incubation period for SARS-CoV2 is up to 14 days, we are only now beginning to see the effects of the lax public attitude towards COVID-19 during the July 4th holiday, with all the famous beach parties etc..   We will start to see a crush of cases around July 18th, and some early ones are already showing up.  Just wait, folks. 

Of course, Mr. Trump is desperate for ANY positive economic activity, and he's freaking out that so many parents have to stay home and home-school their kids.  I've struggled to see if I could come up with an alternative teaching paradigm at the grade school/high school level and cannot.  One of our forum teachers suggested Prenda, which I investigated, and it is somewhat close, but not nearly safe enough to protect vulnerable adults from children carriers of COVID-19.

In Arizona, we are cursed with the "digital divide," and many of my students at Walden Grove High School did not have broadband access at home, nor did they own adequate technology (not even tablets).  

We need a national broadband policy, where all citizens have access to broadband at little or no cost.  The Internet Service Providers like Cox and Comcast will scream blue murder, but tough cookies, we need parity with other nations like South Korea, Taiwan etc. who offer this to their citizens.  Our economy would SURGE with low cost or free Internet.   



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 14 2020 at 8:47pm

I agree 100%. Internet should have been a high priority  all along, but especially starting in March. 



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 15 2020 at 10:12am

And think about the surge in employment if we're out there stringing more internet cables, etc.!



Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: July 15 2020 at 12:10pm

It’s this kind of innovative thinking that is NOT taking place, either in the private sector or in the public education system!  As a teacher, I see the resistance to changing things from the status quo. People are big fans of “the way it’s always been done.”  We are adaptable creatures, it’s how we survived without fangs or claws — we can certainly adapt to this, IF our traditionalist preferences don’t demand otherwise. 



Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 15 2020 at 12:15pm

Excellent point. Where's our Anerican ingenuity? We should be unleashing innovative solutions.



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 15 2020 at 2:33pm

Well, we just lost a professor from Old Dominion University, (my son's alma mater) one of the colleges in my area-  today to Covid. He was only 55




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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: July 15 2020 at 4:07pm

Tabitha, I am so sorry to hear that.   



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 15 2020 at 4:23pm





Our last labor government 

Implemented a fibre optic roll out, every house was supposed to get fibre to the house, 

Next came a Librel government that changed that as it was to expensive,

we Now have a mixture if to the node(end of street)and the copper to your house, or some have fibre to the house,

Before all this happened people thought it a waste of money,

Now we could not have done aswell IE.people working from home,

This has changed the way people work .

Heaps of people now only going into the office twice a week, saves company money,

No travel time /expenses......

I'm Just waiting for the "office space " rentals to crash.....



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: July 16 2020 at 8:44am

[QUOTE=Tabitha111]

Well, we just lost a professor from Old Dominion University, (my son's alma mater) one of the colleges in my area-  today to Covid. He was only 55


[/QUOTE 

I used to live in the housing area, Larchmont, about 4 blocks from ODU.



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 16 2020 at 12:40pm

I also posted under "funny" but...it belongs here too...



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 16 2020 at 12:44pm

Oh wow....small world Penham.

My son lived on campus freshman year then moved to a house around 45th street with a bunch of international students. (he gravitated towards them and set up a soccer team with them) When he got married he had friends flying in from all over the world, Denmark, Australia, Costa Rica...

I live in the Virginia Beach area. Didn't want him to commute even though we did live so close, I wanted him out of the house ...LOL...we had homeschooled up to college and it was time for him to fly away!



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: roni3470
Date Posted: July 20 2020 at 1:49pm

Just listened to the Colorado Dept of Ed recommendations.  They are letting the counties decide what is best for their area but they are saying that K-8 will have no limit for class size.  Really?  30 kids in a room is ok.  Shaking My Head!!!



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NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred


Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: July 20 2020 at 1:55pm

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

I find it interesting that schools supply meals for the children,

Here all kids take their own lunch box,

Teachers look through it to see if it's a balanced meal, IE,no candy etc..... 

Parents gets sent letter if not a balanced meal.....

Carbon, in the USA, many of our students are from impoverished households.  In many cases, the ONLY food they receive is that which is served to them in our public schools.  School meals are, many times, the only meal they receive all day. 

I could rant on about this, but will spare all of us.  We are a mess over here, the inequality in income is daunting. 

In 2018, school cafeterias served nearly 5 billion lunches, with nearly three-quarters of the lunches free or at a reduced price. ERS-sponsored research found that children from food-insecure and marginally secure households were more likely to eat school meals and received more of their food and nutrient intake from school meals than did other children (see  http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/42320/PDF" rel="noopener noreferrer" style='font-size: 16px; box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(76, 44, 146); text-decoration: underline; font-weight: 600; font-family: "Public Sans", sans-serif;' title="Children’s Food Security and Intakes from School Meals: Final Report - Children's Food Security and Intakes from School Meals: Final Report ).

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/child-nutrition-programs/national-school-lunch-program/ - https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/child-nutrition-programs/national-school-lunch-program/



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 20 2020 at 2:51pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by carbon20 carbon20 wrote:

I find it interesting that schools supply meals for the children,

Here all kids take their own lunch box,

Teachers look through it to see if it's a balanced meal, IE,no candy etc..... 

Parents gets sent letter if not a balanced meal.....

Carbon, in the USA, many of our students are from impoverished households.  In many cases, they ONLY food they receive is that which is served to them in our public schools.  School meals are, many times, the only meal they receive all day. 

I could rant on about this, but will spare all of us.  We are a mess over here, the inequality in income is daunting. 

In 2018, school cafeterias served nearly 5 billion lunches, with nearly three-quarters of the lunches free or at a reduced price. ERS-sponsored research found that children from food-insecure and marginally secure households were more likely to eat school meals and received more of their food and nutrient intake from school meals than did other children (see  http://naldc.nal.usda.gov/download/42320/PDF" rel="noopener noreferrer" style='font-size: 16px; box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(76, 44, 146); text-decoration: underline; font-weight: 600; font-family: "Public Sans", sans-serif;' title="Children’s Food Security and Intakes from School Meals: Final Report - Children's Food Security and Intakes from School Meals: Final Report ).

https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/child-nutrition-programs/national-school-lunch-program/ - https://www.ers.usda.gov/topics/food-nutrition-assistance/child-nutrition-programs/national-school-lunch-program/

When I was at high school in the UK, many moons ago,we purchased tickets at the start of the week, one for each day you wanted lunch(cooked meat,veg,potaoes,dessert),

for those kids that came from poorer families they got a free meal, they had different tickets)

Difficult decisions for parents coming up.....

Be safe all......



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: July 20 2020 at 8:09pm

IMy general practitioners of 20 years on an online doc appt recently with me for an ear infection from sinus allergies  told me the schools in Northern  V A are crazy.  He predicts they will last three weeks before they shut down. He has seen so many family groups and  party groups all catch it from children’s birthday parties



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 21 2020 at 8:06am

I am very concerned for my brother and his wife, both school teachers in high schools up in Northern VA.
They are both very fit, but in their late 50's. 



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 4:51pm

Just watch Chump on tv

How he can say kids don't carry C19 is beyond me

They Will spread it far and wide....

Has anyone seen the precautions they take in Hong Kong, at the schools....

I can't see any Aussie kids or American kids being so regimented......

Not in our natures.....

I have no answers....go with your gut instincts....



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 6:35pm

I concur with Usk's doctor.  Glad as hell I don't have any kids...



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 10:26pm

9News: Coronavirus: Victoria Premier Daniel Andrews appeals to young people as four children hospitalised with COVID-19.

https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-victoria-premier-daniel-andrews-makes-appeal-to-young-people-as-four-children-hospitalised/c5c53514-6580-4b9b-9970-95f21190f9ab - https://www.9news.com.au/national/coronavirus-victoria-premier-daniel-andrews-makes-appeal-to-young-people-as-four-children-hospitalised/c5c53514-6580-4b9b-9970-95f21190f9ab



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 22 2020 at 10:30pm

Funny how we get the facrs and truth


You get Double talk/speech..........



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 4:53am

If you shut out the mixed messaging, we get the truth.  The problem is you have to dig for it in the media.



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 6:30am






I try watch, read news items from all over,

dare I say ,

fox /sky (short doses.......lol)

BBC, CNN

,German,French,Indian,Russian ,Chinese,al Jazeera,Sri Lankan,


Etc......

(Something to do on the train....)

all bulls...t....

LMAO.....

Keep safe all



-------------
Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: kaye kaye
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 12:07pm

Originally posted by BeachMama BeachMama wrote:

My husband and I talked today, and we made the difficult decision of keeping our kids online for the fall. Our son has been suffering from extremely bad anxiety due to being home from school due to his Asperger’s — and their school freaking SUCKS so he’ll lose his Theater 3 elective. They’re pushing for an entirely normal approach to school and their in person program won’t even involve any type of social distancing, no masks, still having 30 kids in a classroom, etc. 

Despite that, we feel that the SAFEST place for them to be is at home. I’m going to give them the option of doing the school’s virtual program, or having a full-on homeschool approach. Whatever they want of the two, they’ll get — if it will keep them happy and engaged, and LEARNING!

I think it's great you have thought of all the options and are going with what is best for your family. 



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keep the joy


Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 12:43pm

Well Fairax caved all virtual until 2nd  quarter



Posted By: Tabitha111
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 5:16pm

so happy, my brother is a teacher in Fairfax!

Here in Va Beach its virtual for all the schools too...just made the announcement.

I don't feel like it's "caving" at all...its the prudent thing to do!



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'A man who does not think and plan long ahead will find trouble right at his door.'
--Confucius



Posted By: Usk
Date Posted: July 23 2020 at 7:36pm

I agree with you 100 percent it just could have been done better. There was no real choice here for anyone with half a brain. Our school board and superintendent gave false hope to parents. More than half the parents knew it couldn’t and shouldn’t happen



Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:13am

Really interesting article about how some parents are engineering a response to school closures:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/parenting/school-pods-coronavirus.html - https://www.nytimes.com/2020/07/22/parenting/school-pods-coronavirus.html

I messaged with Beach Mama about this (we are both certified teachers in AZ), and we postulated that small neighborhood schools might be a way to jumpstart the education system.  This seems to be that model! 

However, mixing anyone in close quarters will entail risk - I am old enough that I do not wish to risk COVID-19, and I don't need the teaching income.  Therefore, I support our state and local teachers and follow developments closely.  

We have to consider a "web of exposure" in schools....children are exposed to one another, and also family members, so if you were to draw this out, you'd see that each child actually has multiple exposure routes during the day.  Unless everyone follows extreme social distancing and hygiene, there will be breakthrough infections and outbreaks that will cost lives.  

Therefore, I am not in favor of reopening schools at this time.  Perhaps a "gap year" approach, to teach kids lessons besides purely academic subjects?  This was on a Facebook page, I think it has merit:

Is anybody thinking about giving their kids a “gap year” from

traditional schooling? For example- having a small quaranteam &

teaching life lessons that aren’t taught in a traditional classroom

anymore?


I wouldn’t mind if my soon to be sophomores started their 10th grade

in 2021. Don’t tell them this I just don’t think remote

schooling in a public high school and quality education are

synonymous...


DO NOT get me wrong, this would in no way be a year of sitting

around, like an extended summer of Xbox and sleeping in. This would

be learning computer science/technology, how to maintain a home,

budget money, cook, clean properly, maintain a vehicle, with an

added dose of a “curriculum” consisting of physical education,

language, etc...


btw- I am not privileged OR rich, I am a single mother who hasn’t

seen child support in a decade. I DO have an amazing group of

friends (my “village”) who happen to be my kids friends parents.

NONE of us are “rich”. We only want the best for our kids and think

we could help them grow if we all pull our weight and different

expertise together.


Also, this is ONE of many thoughts...



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 10:19am

I think this is terrific idea, on two counts.

One, I worked for almost 23 years in a turnpike plaza, 2-3 restaurants in the plaza at a time.  Now, I couldn't make the kids I worked with, who comprised about 2/3 of the workplace, have a work ethic.  Their parents either taught them that or they didn't.  Many of them didn't really know how to clean or take care of simple kitchen equipment.  Some of them just expected to show up and be paid.  What good does it do if they can diagram a sentence, or know important dates in their country's history, if they get hired to a job, and can't/won't fulfill the basic requirements of that job?  It helps a lot if someone had acquainted them with the facts of working life before I got them to train them.  A surprising amount of them didn't know how to mop a floor or, going back to another job I had, load a dishwasher!  Someone to teach them about pride in their work, and satisfaction in a job well done.  These kids need so much external approbation, how about teaching them to not rely on other people for that?  I saw so many of them become frustrated and negative because they weren't getting patted on the back enough.  They need to be taught that that is how it is in the workplace!  And that they will have to motivate and approve themselves.  These kinds of intangibles can make kids a lot more employable, no matter what kinds of jobs they seek.

Also, being taught things like how to take care of a car, how to maintain a home.  I would have given my eyeteeth to have learned some of these things!  I still know very little of how to take care of a car, and wish I had someone to teach me now, or better yet, when I was young.  It is not like a young girl is going to be comfortable signing up for an auto mechanics class.  And we want to foster independence.  Frequently a man will teach his sons, but not his daughters how to take care of a car, or pound a nail in straight, drill a hole, etc.  And moreover, impress upon them all that needs to be done in a house.  When my mum got divorced, she told her divorce lawyer, "You get my house for me, I'll take care of keeping it.". All well and fine, except no one taught her to clean the gutters every year, clean out the air conditioner filter, how often to have the duct work cleaned, or the carpets.  And no one taught me.  So several years ago I came around to this house, never having had some of these things done, and my mother complaining the house is "run-down".  All because basically, my mother didn't know what she didn't know.  I have fixed what I can, and paid others to do what I can't.  There still remains the gap of what I could/would do, if I only knew how.  This is the year to teach the kids so they know in theory how to maintain a house, and then the actual skills to do it.



Posted By: AI
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 12:03pm

New U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention guidelines on education and child care come down hard in favor of opening schools, saying children don't suffer much from coronavirus, are less likely than adults to spread it and suffer from being out of school.

But the new guidelines  https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/community/schools-childcare/reopening-schools.html" rel="nofollow" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(0, 102, 204); text-decoration: none; - posted Thursday do recommend that local officials should consider closing schools, or keeping them closed, if there is substantial, uncontrolled transmission of the virus.

Advertisement

The CDC has been promising new guidelines for more than a week, after demands from President Donald Trump that the agency alter its recommendations for opening schools.

"It is critically important for our public health to open schools this fall," CDC Director Dr. Robert Redfield said in a statement announcing the updates.

"School closures have disrupted normal ways of life for children and parents, and they have had negative health consequences on our youth. CDC is prepared to work with K-12 schools to safely reopen while protecting the most vulnerable."

They start with an unsigned statement on "the importance of reopening America's schools this fall."

"The best available evidence indicates that COVID-19 poses relatively low risks to school-aged children," the statement reads.

"Children appear to be at lower risk for contracting COVID-19 compared to adults. To put this in perspective, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), as of July 17, 2020, the United States reported that children and adolescents under 18 years old account for under 7 percent of COVID-19 cases and less than 0.1 percent of COVID-19-related deaths," it adds.

"Scientific studies suggest that COVID-19 transmission among children in schools may be low. International studies that have assessed how readily COVID-19 spreads in schools also reveal low rates of transmission when community transmission is low."

It notes that there are few reports of children being the driving force of transmission within families. "This is consistent with data from both virus and antibody testing, suggesting that children are not the primary drivers of COVID-19 spread in schools or in the community," the statement reads.

"No studies are conclusive, but the available evidence provides reason to believe that in-person schooling is in the best interest of students, particularly in the context of appropriate mitigation measures similar to those implemented at essential workplaces."

https://www.wesh.com/article/new-cdc-guidelines-come-down-hard-in-favor-of-opening-schools-this-fall/33409819 - https://www.wesh.com/article/new-cdc-guidelines-come-down-hard-in-favor-of-opening-schools-this-fall/33409819

Remember follow the science, listen to the experts? Well here it is.



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 12:18pm

Well, we're going to find out.  I think things are going to look a lot different in a year.  In my area, cases have been surging for the past 5-6 weeks.  They are trying to mitigate, but basically, everyone here I know that has kids is pretty scared for what the next couple months will bring.



Posted By: WitchMisspelled
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 6:58pm

Sad but true, ViQueen.  Whether or not the science is accurate or not.  And since anyone who actually follows this knows there's a lot more entailed in the science of opening schools other than "kids don't carry corona".  That science is clearly changing with the new data of child infections.  8% of all infections.  They might not get as sick, but their parents, grandparents and teachers will.  
https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/ - https://services.aap.org/en/pages/2019-novel-coronavirus-covid-19-infections/children-and-covid-19-state-level-data-report/


What I find most heinous about this rhetoric is that the RNC has been cancelled because it's not "safe".  



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 7:44pm

And like I keep saying, we have no idea what is coming down the pike with this virus.  What happens to the survivors later?  Does this virus lodge in the body and lay waste to it in 2, 5, 20 years?  This virus is not a specialist, wasting "only" the lungs or one part of the body.  This virus is an equal opportunity destroyer, capable of doing significant damage to any system of the body, or several or all.  My bet says it's stealthy enough to bide its time and deal a knockout blow later.  

This still haunts me:




Posted By: CRS, DrPH
Date Posted: July 24 2020 at 11:36pm

My wife and I went through the local McDonald's drive-through, and the young man who gave us our order recognized me as "Mr. Stack," his sophomore biology teacher!!  It's been a year since I taught, and it was great to see Beau again! 

Folks, we HAVE to get this right!!  Stuffing kids into classrooms so that Mr. Trump can have an economic bump is really bad policy - I'm sure it must really stink to have the kids underfoot and not be able to work like before, but nobody has immunity to this virus, and I have a feeling that mingling young people with adult teachers will just open the gates of Hell. 

Teaching kids the fundamentals of life would be a good thing.  In my stone-age era, we did some of that through the Boy Scouts, where I first learned how to prepare food, cook, clean dishes etc.   Let's put aside the academic subjects for now and focus on life subjects.....there will be time enough to catch up on the math/science etc. eventually.  



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CRS, DrPH


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: July 25 2020 at 7:54am

"Open the gates of hell."  That is the perfect way to put it!



Posted By: roni3470
Date Posted: July 25 2020 at 7:16pm

Our local district in Colorado had insisted on a 100% in person return and after so many complaints, have now decided to go to a hybrid model where students go for 2 days then have 3 days off alternating so not so many are at school.  I am still worried but more comfortable with this than an all in person option!



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NOW is the Season to Know

that Everything you Do

is Sacred


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 25 2020 at 9:14pm

I think the teachers should be moving from classroom to classroom,not kids moving enmass every 40 mins or so.....

And classes of kids should be kept separate from each other.....

That might mitigate transmission......

Stressing MIGHT..!!!!!!



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: AandEM
Date Posted: July 28 2020 at 2:37pm

I've been putting it off... thinking it wasn't really going to happen... but, it's time to start preparing for whatever this year looks like. In person, 5 days a week, 33 kids per class. Enough room to distance 20. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 29 2020 at 1:54am

The Age: 'Schools are not safe': Principal's plea to Premier to close classrooms.

https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/schools-are-not-safe-principal-s-plea-to-premier-to-close-schools-20200728-p55g52.html - https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/schools-are-not-safe-principal-s-plea-to-premier-to-close-schools-20200728-p55g52.html



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: July 29 2020 at 3:47pm

ABC: Sydney news: At least three Sydney schools, preschool, close today amid 

coronavirus fears.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-30/sydney-news-morning-briefing-thursday-july-30/12505462 - https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-07-30/sydney-news-morning-briefing-thursday-july-30/12505462



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: August 02 2020 at 3:26pm

http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/12/c_139207466.htm - http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/2020-07/12/c_139207466.htm



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: Hazelpad
Date Posted: August 02 2020 at 6:03pm

Here in Scotland my kids due back mid August.  Scottish parliament not giving us a choice.  No blended learning, no home schooling, no social distancing even for my teenagers.   No face coverings except the teaching staff.  Just extra handwashing station.   Huge school as well.  Kids saying it is like the hunger games  they are being forced in an arena and let's see whose family has the best immune system.  

Hz x



Posted By: Penham
Date Posted: August 02 2020 at 9:51pm

Omg that's awful. Most schools in our state are offering regular school or distance learning, where they will issue chrome books to the students. 



Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: August 03 2020 at 8:27am

OMG, Hazelpad that is awful... can't even think about that.

Here it literally is decided by each school district.  Most have hybrid, and a few are all distance.  And a few are going full-tilt boogie the other direction.  We'll see in about six weeks how this all goes.  But!  Looking at the amount of stories I have seen of spread at parties, play dates, day camps and the like, I am not too optimistic.



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: August 04 2020 at 1:48am

The Independent: Coronavirus news - live: Schools reopening risks second wave twice as big as first, Lancet study warns as Australia deploys army to enforce lockdown.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-live-uk-update-cases-deaths-schools-lockdown-boris-johnson-covid-today-latest-a9652481.html - http://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/coronavirus-news-live-uk-update-cases-deaths-schools-lockdown-boris-johnson-covid-today-latest-a9652481.html



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: ksc
Date Posted: August 05 2020 at 3:14am


Posted By: ViQueen24
Date Posted: August 05 2020 at 5:31am

Jeez...I rest my case.



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: August 05 2020 at 5:59am






See what happens in 14 days .........🙁



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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius


Posted By: BeachMama
Date Posted: August 05 2020 at 9:26am

So many people in my area are hanging on with bloody fingernails to the argument that “kids don’t get Covid”...

Totally ignoring the data showing that they do. They get it, they transmit it, sometimes —tragically — they become very ill and die from it.  Then, the same happens to those they got sick.  And the cycle continues.  Teachers are especially at risk in this cycle.  

I know we cannot keep kids home from school forever; but now is not the time to send them back. 



Posted By: carbon20
Date Posted: August 05 2020 at 4:01pm

Just watching Mark Meadows,interview,

In one breath he says it's safe for children to go back to school ,

In another says, 

We all know if my child gets a cold from school, I will get it a few days later!!!!! 

Why is the health of your child a political issue ?

Why is wearing a mask a political issue ?

Why cast doubt on your election system ?

Sorry I just don't get it, 




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Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

Marcus Aurelius



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