[url]https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/long-covid-really-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-another-name[/url] or https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/long-covid-really-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-another-name - https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/public-health-now/news/long-covid-really-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-another-name ;

Even after the World Health Organization declares the end of the global pandemic, COVID-19 will continue to cast a long shadow. By some estimates, nearly a third of people with a symptomatic infection still experience debilitating symptoms months later. Much about Post-Acute Sequelae of SARS-CoV-2 infection (PASC), the clinical term for what is commonly referred to as Long (or Long-haul) COVID, is unknown. However, one intriguing clue can be found in its similarity to myalgic encephalomyelitis, a disease also known as chronic fatigue syndrome or ME/CFS.

https://www.publichealth.columbia.edu/people/our-faculty/mh2092" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(64, 104, 183); text-decoration: none; - Mady Hornig , a Columbia Mailman School psychiatrist renowned for her research on ME/CFS, joined Walter J. Koroshetz, director of the National Institute of Neurological Disorders and Stroke (NINDS), for a late June panel discussion on post-acute COVID. The panel was part of  https://www.thegreenespace.org/event/wnyc-2021-health-convening/" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(64, 104, 183); text-decoration: none; - WNYC Radio’s 2021 Health Convening , hosted by Nsikan Akpan, health and science editor at New York Public Radio.

Individuals with PASC/Long COVID rarely continue to test positive for an active infection (at least by standard tests) but continue to experience a constellation of symptoms, from fatigue to trouble with cognition and chest and abdominal pain. While the condition is most common in those with severe COVID, it is also seen in 19 percent of those with asymptomatic infections, according to an analysis by https://s3.amazonaws.com/media2.fairhealth.org/whitepaper/asset/A%20Detailed%20Study%20of%20Patients%20with%20Long-Haul%20COVID--An%20Analysis%20of%20Private%20Healthcare%20Claims--A%20FAIR%20Health%20White%20Paper.pdf" rel="noopener noreferrer" style="box-sizing: border-box; -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(64, 104, 183); text-decoration: none; - FAIR Health , although studies vary widely. But how the virus triggers these symptoms and why it happens in some people not others is so far unknown.

“We’re really dealing with a mystery right now,” said Koroshetz. Yet the similarities of Long COVID to ME/CFS are striking, starting with a significant overlap in the symptoms, notably fatigue, unrefreshing sleep or “post-exertional malaise”—a general sense of being unwell after even minor physical or cognitive exertion affecting a majority of those with long COVID, along with high rates of problems with memory and attention (“brain fog”). Pain is another feature in common. And the onset of both Long COVID and up to 75 percent of ME/CFS cases can be traced to a viral infection. Indeed, one might easily ask: could Long COVID and ME/CFS be one and the same?

and [url]https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/long-covid-patients-may-have-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/[/url] or https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/long-covid-patients-may-have-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/ - https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/long-covid-patients-may-have-chronic-fatigue-syndrome/ ;

Some of the symptoms are consistent with what we know about COVID-19. The 39 per cent of long COVID cases that have shortness of breath could be linked to the  https://www.sciencefocus.com/news/persistent-structural-changes-in-lungs-could-explain-long-covid/" style="box-sizing: inherit; scroll-margin-top: 100px; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(70, 96, 159); text-decoration: underline; touch-action: manipulation; font-weight: inherit; cursor: pointer; transition: all 0.1s linear 0s; - damage the coronavirus can cause to lungs, while a third of people with long COVID still experience the  https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/how-does-anosmia-affect-your-sense-of-smell/" style="box-sizing: inherit; scroll-margin-top: 100px; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(70, 96, 159); text-decoration: underline; touch-action: manipulation; font-weight: inherit; cursor: pointer; transition: all 0.1s linear 0s; - loss of smell common with COVID-19 infection.

However, the most common long COVID symptom reported is fatigue, which has made some question whether the condition could in fact be the same as  https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/chronic-fatigue-syndrome-cfs/" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing: inherit; scroll-margin-top: 100px; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(70, 96, 159); text-decoration: underline; touch-action: manipulation; font-weight: inherit; cursor: pointer; transition: all 0.1s linear 0s; - chronic fatigue syndrome (CFS).

Also referred to as myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), CFS is a long-term condition that makes people experience extreme fatigue, particularly after exercise, in addition to problems sleeping, bodily pain and confusion known as  https://www.sciencefocus.com/the-human-body/brain-fog/" style="box-sizing: inherit; scroll-margin-top: 100px; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(70, 96, 159); text-decoration: underline; touch-action: manipulation; font-weight: inherit; cursor: pointer; transition: all 0.1s linear 0s; - brain fog . Scientists still don’t know what causes ME/CFS, but many patients’ onset of the condition follows infection with a virus or bacteria.

Until now, experts haven’t been able to confidently say whether ME/CFS is a part of long COVID. But a new study, by researchers at Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai in New York, has tested  https://doi.org/10.1016/j.jchf.2021.10.002" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing: inherit; scroll-margin-top: 100px; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(70, 96, 159); text-decoration: underline; touch-action: manipulation; font-weight: inherit; cursor: pointer; transition: all 0.1s linear 0s; - 41 patients against ME/CFS diagnostic criteria .

Of the group, 46 per cent had four or more symptoms of ME/CFS and had experienced a substantial impact to their lives as a result of fatigue. A further 13 long COVID patients met the criteria but were excluded on account of having a large BMI or a cardiac disease.

And [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral_and_other_infections[/url] or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral_and_other_infections - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#Viral_and_other_infections ; 

The term post-viral fatigue syndrome (PVFS) is used to describe CFS-like symptoms that occur after a viral infection. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-ICC2011primer-7" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [7]} A recent review found  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein-Barr_Virus" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Epstein-Barr Virus - Epstein-Barr virus (EBV) antibody activity to be higher in patients with CFS, and that a subset of patients with CFS were likely to have increased EBV activity compared to controls. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-Eriksen-54" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [54]} Viral infection is a significant risk factor for CFS, with one study finding 22% of people with EBV experience fatigue six months later, and 9% having strictly defined CFS. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-55" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [55]} A systematic review found that fatigue severity was the main predictor of prognosis in CFS, and did not identify psychological factors linked to prognosis. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-Jason2009-56" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [56]} One review found risk factors for developing CFS after mononucleosis,  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dengue_fever" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Dengue fever - dengue fever or the bacterial infection  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-fever" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none;" title="Q-fever - Q-fever include longer bed-rest during the illness, poorer pre-illness physical fitness, attributing symptoms to physical illness, belief that a long recovery time is needed, as well as pre-infection distress and fatigue. The same review found biological factors such as CD4 and CD8 activation and liver inflammation are predictors of sub-acute fatigue, but not CFS, ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-57" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [57]} however these findings are not generally accepted due to the use of the Oxford criteria in selecting patients. The CDC does not recognize attribution of symptoms as a risk factor. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-CDC-causes-2020-6" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [6]}

A study comparing diagnostic labels found that people labelled with ME had the worst prognosis, while those with PVFS had the best. Whether this is due to those with more severe or longer lasting symptoms results in a label with the description of ME, or if being labelled with ME adversely causes a more severe or prolonged illness is unclear. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome#cite_note-Brurberg2014rev-58" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(6, 69, 173); background: none; - [58]}

DJ Post viral problems are known to exist for decades. But what is causing it is-yet-unknown. Maybe we may learn more from Long CoViD ? 

Let me restart this...(january 9-2023) 

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none; -

- Dr. Deepti Gurdasani

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none;" tabindex="-1 -

Agree fully with Eric that this explanatory model doesn't explain much of the evidence around long COVID.  Much focus on psychology with no evidence, and so little on viral persistence, immune dysregulation, inflammation, activation of clotting pathways, and vascular damage.

related to;

Eric Topol

@EricTopol

·

Jan 6

A new explanatory model proposed for #LongCovid https://thelancet.com/journals/lanres/article/PIIS2213-2600(22)00501-X/fulltext… @LancetRespirMed  "an embodied condition with heterogeneous biological, psychological (experiential), and social (or environmental) factors integrated in complex relationships"

DJ;

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none; -

- Dr. Deepti Gurdasani

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none;" tabindex="-1 -

·

Jan 6

Replying to 

@dgurdasani1

Honestly find this quite offensive given all the evidence on long COVID now. 'Catastrophisation', 'de-conditioning' - really? I thought we had moved beyond this but this pseudoscientific rubbish with zero evidence behind it gets published.

and

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none; -

- Dr. Deepti Gurdasani

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none;" tabindex="-1 -

·

Jan 6

Interesting how they talk about 'traumatic experience of illness' without realising their gaslighting directly contributes to this. There is zero evidence that long COVID is 'functional'. Loads of evidence of immune dysregulation and viral persistence.

may be much to "friendly". Immmune dysregulation and viral persistence means CoViD developing further...and then they are supposed to get "training to think their illness is mental"...Criminal insane !!!!

https://twitter.com/HunterB86" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; width: 52px; height: 52px; transition-duration: 0.2s; transition-property: background-color, box-shadow; outline-style: none;" tabindex="-1">

https://twitter.com/HunterB86" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none; -

- Ben

https://twitter.com/HunterB86" style="background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; cursor: pointer; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none;" tabindex="-1 -

·

Jan 6

Replying to 

@dgurdasani1

From a patient and carer perspective this is just the same old same old.   Something is poorly understood or hard to treat so it gets pushed to the psychological  category. Treatments on offer include cognitive therapy and 'helpful' suggestions such as "have you tried swimming?"

DJ, In the past also with ME-CFS "science" published all kinds of pseudo-science...Psychology can help dealing with grief and sorrow-but "Long CoViD" often is linked to long term damage -90% of cases even the virus still IN the host !!!- because of CoViD...Worldwide there must-by now-be hundreds of millions of "long CoViD cases"...You would need millions of extra psychology-helpers to deal with these numbers...!

I think dealing with grief and sorrow, taking their issues serious, may prevent people sinking into depression ON TOP !!!! of Long CoViD ! Long CoViD itself is NOT !!! mental ! 

Treating it as a mental issue could be wasting billions of pounds, dollars, euro's that could be used in a more effective way. Treating long CoViD patients as "mental cases" is increasing the problem...again !!!

Lots of scientists admit long term post-viral damage may be overlooked. "Post Viral Syndrome" is real...not "mental"....

(DJ-I realy can get very angry over this...HCW-ers here in NL who got sick in the early stages of the pandemic (no masks, no protection) now end up in legal fights to get some basic income...).

-------------
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein

My personal theory on Long Covid is that, in some cases, people simply haven't given themselves, or been given, enough time to fully recover from Covid. I'm fit and healthy but it took me 3 months to feel I'd got over Covid. I was exhausted, run down, even the slightest exertion - whether it was mental or physical - saw me feeling totally bushwhacked the next day, often with a sore throat or a cough. 

And I'm not alone in this. My hubby had the same,  as had a number of friends. But if you are in a job that is full time you only have limited sick pay and need to get back to work, and personally I think the majority went back too soon. 

So Long Covid is perhaps a rumbling, enduring, Covid infection that sticks around because the body hasn't been able to clear it because the person hasn't had the time/opportunity or resources or support to fully recover. 

Please bear in mind, I'm not a doctor and this is just based on my observations and my opinion.

KiwiMum, good points, recovery may take time...more time then "just a flu/cold". People are used to the idea that "illness/sickleave" "has to be maximum one week" or so....

In the Long CoViD discussion -like in many other CoViD discussions (what is a "CoViD case"? A positive test ? Or positive plus symptoms ?) there is no real good definition-as far as I know...

An "old" criterium was "recovery within four weeks"...so that resulted in lots of "long CoViD cases"...three-six months may be now be seen as more realistic at some levels...

I am also not a doctor/scientist but you do not need a university degree to see "definitions matter"....

Another "wisdom" is "statistics is a great way to lie"...When looking at excess deaths one could compare excess deaths with the 3 years before...2020-2022..."so no excess deaths"! Well 2020,21,22 are pandemic years...so if 2023 has even excess deaths compared to those years excess deaths still increase...

I think "long CoViD" -in my eyes a form of CoViD-may be the most widespread form. However if one would define "CoViD" as a disease lasting up to one year to number of people dealing with Long CoViD will decrease a lot - in statistics....

Maybe another point in the Long CoViD/ME-CFS discussion has to be-by now-do you need to have tested positive for CoViD before you may claim Long CoViD ? 

Or should we "go" for an "increase of ME-CFS" because a lot of Long CoViD cases never tested positive (PCR and/or at home LF) for CoViD as a start ? 

What I do get is there is some discussion in the medical world on "post viral disease"....The idea was; one catches an infection and fully recovers...however a.o. in ME-CFS that picture is different. 

Lyme-disease is another discussion-although with lots of links...The ELIZA-test used is very unreliable...You may not find signs of a tick-bite...Chronic Q-fever, long term Legionella also are part of this chronic=6 months + diseases. However for some diseases "chronic" may mean a year...in "Chronic CoViD" I would define as "virus still hanging out in the host" maybe after 4 weeks...

"Politics" seem to be in denial over the CoViD pandemic...(now "endemic" however excess deaths per year may be 2 million worldwide...) and it looks like some "politicians" "love to deny" Long CoViD as well ..."to save the economy"....

Sick workers can be replaced-by importing other workers (and returning the sick one if possible). Lost profits can not be replaced...this CoViD pandemic is indicating a mental disease "dominating" profit oriented societies...

Maybe more on long lasting health issues after initial infections;

A problem with any "syndrome" is its complexity...DJ-I am NOT an expert; just give my view on it...

-There may be an ongoing disease-infection...Maybe lasting longer then "medical theory" expects them to last...

-On top/aside from that an infection may have done damage...

-Long lasting healthissues also have a mental aspect...from depression-like to decrease of condition...

So the answers will be "complex" as well;

-What works for one person may not de a thing for someone else

-Medication/supplements may need time to have effects-need the right dosages....

-[url]https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Graded_exercise_therapy[/url] or https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Graded_exercise_therapy - https://me-pedia.org/wiki/Graded_exercise_therapy -ignoring symptoms- has NO place in dealing with long lasting health issues...However regaining (some) condition may help improving quality of life...

[url]https://me-pedia.org/wiki/MEpedia:How_to_contribute[/url] or https://me-pedia.org/wiki/MEpedia:How_to_contribute - https://me-pedia.org/wiki/MEpedia:How_to_contribute and [url]https://www.meaction.net/[/url] or https://www.meaction.net/ - https://www.meaction.net/ may provide lots of info also of use for long/chronic CoViD.

I have had CFS for the last 30 years. I spent the first 3 years bed ridden.

It was caused by a vaccination I received when i went to Jakarta in 1993

Hence my reason for being against vaccinations.

By the way... I Have heard two people say they have long Covid. My neighbour. She talks about shortness of breath, dizziness and heart issues. And my best mate's wife. Who has immense fatigue and heart inflammation. She is degenerating and its quite scary. 

Both people have been told by doctors that they have post Covid complications. Both got their symptoms about a week after their Covid jab. Both had Covid at a mismatch time with their symptoms. 

I'm pretty sure my mate and his wife now realize its not Covid and instead a vax injury. My neighbour on the other hand is oblivious. She mentions how dangerous Covid is every time I see her. 

Post Covid or Vax Injury????

Anywho...

The thing which pulled me out of CFS was graded exercise. The progress was excruciating. I would often push it too far and relapse back into a limp lifeless state. It was really difficult. 

Diet was a factor. Essentially I ate only organic raw food and some fish for protein. I took Fish oil, which made quite a difference. No alcohol.

I was living like an athlete competing in a marathon. My marathon was getting out of bed. 

I have over the years learnt that CFS is associated with the body's inflammation response. Somehow there is an over reaction to exercise and the fatigue is something to do with inflammation. There is a feed back loop. 

Thats my two cents worth. If you have any questions about CFS. Maybe i can help

Cobber, thanks for your story. 

Do I think vax can cause CFS ? Maybe it can-maybe other words; the body reaction to the vaccine results in ME-CFS-like symptoms....

To blame ME-CFS on a vaccine one has to have had a/"the" vaccine....I would welcome further study on that....Is there a "sub-group" of people developing CFS-ME-like symptoms 3-6 months after a vaccination ? (Just basic statistics...it should not be that hard !) 

I tried to see how //ME-pedia.org - ME-pedia.org does see the vaccine-ME link....(ME-pedia a short term project ?) Somehow the link now not functioning...

[url]https://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/defensie-erkent-jungle-zieken~b4b3ffd0/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F[/url] or https://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/defensie-erkent-jungle-zieken~b4b3ffd0/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F - https://www.trouw.nl/nieuws/defensie-erkent-jungle-zieken~b4b3ffd0/?referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F is a NL link on NL marines developing ME-CFS like symptoms after vaccination in the '90 s...It would be interesting to learn if one vax did cause the problem or it was the combination and/or timing of vaccines...

Maybe to much vaccines in a short time were/are a problem ? 

Can "graded excercise" help "heal the body"? My view on it-it has also a high risk of increasing damage...what works for one may not bring much good for another...I did read stories of people ending up in wheelchairs....

There is always a mental factor....having support from family/friends/fellow sufferers...

You did see full recovery ? Or you are still in the process ? Medical evaluation ? Did "graded exercise" do the job or "did you somehow grow out of ME-CFS" ? (Sometimes symptoms go away/deminish...maybe zinc related ? Supplements ? ) 

A "syndrome" always is complex-however basic statistics are not that hard....There may NOT be a very clear link (I think) between ME-CFS and (most) vaccines...but over reaction of the body after vaccination may be a factor. 

[url]https://www.coronaheadsup.com/health/long-covid/long-covid-fatigue-caused-by-an-arginine-deficiency/[/url] or https://www.coronaheadsup.com/health/long-covid/long-covid-fatigue-caused-by-an-arginine-deficiency/ - https://www.coronaheadsup.com/health/long-covid/long-covid-fatigue-caused-by-an-arginine-deficiency/ ;

The mechanism that leads to chronic fatigue in Long Covid patients has been discovered, according to new Italian research.

“The mechanism of action that leads to the state of fatigue, or disabling exhaustion, linked to Long Covid which affects 1 in 3 people who are victims of the Sars-CoV-2 infection has been discovered: it is triggered by a deficit of arginine, an amino acid naturally produced by the body.

This is demonstrated by a study on long Covid conducted by the Agostino Gemelli IRCCS University Polyclinic Foundation – Catholic University Campus of Rome, according to which the chronic fatigue of the post-Covid syndrome is precisely associated with an alteration in the metabolism of arginine.

The new study highlighted that in patients with long Covid there is an alteration of the metabolism of arginine, which stimulates nitric oxide, a key enzyme for proper immune and vascular function.

The researchers also demonstrated that the administration of 1.6 grams of arginine and 500 mg of liposomal vitamin C for 28 days restores the metabolism of arginine to a normal level and effectively counteracts fatigue.”

https://www.ansa.it/canale_saluteebenessere/notizie/medicina/2023/01/28/long-covid-scoperto-meccanismo-che-porta-stanchezza-cronica-2_a974fef6-efbd-403c-8718-ff203367c8a2.html" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(22, 161, 231); text-decoration: none; transition: all 0.3s ease 0s; - Ansa.it: The mechanism that leads to chronic fatigue in Long Covid has been discovered (in Italian)

RESEARCH: Long Covid, a condition characterized by symptom and/or sign persistence following an acute COVID-19 episode, is associated with reduced physical performance and endothelial dysfunction. Supplementation of l-arginine may improve endothelial and muscle function by stimulating nitric oxide synthesis. A single-blind randomized, placebo-controlled trial was conducted in adults aged between 20 and 60 years with persistent fatigue attending a post-acute COVID-19 outpatient clinic.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36501014/" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(22, 161, 231); text-decoration: none; transition: all 0.3s ease 0s; -  

Arginine is classified as a semi-essential or conditionally essential amino acid, depending on the developmental stage and health status of the individual. Preterm infants are unable to synthesize arginine internally, making the amino acid nutritionally essential for them. Most healthy people do not need to supplement with arginine because it is a component of all protein-containing foods and can be synthesized in the body from glutamine via citrulline.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arginine" rel="noopener" style="box-sizing: border-box; background-color: transparent; color: rgb(22, 161, 231); text-decoration: none; transition: all 0.3s ease 0s; -

Hi Josh, CFS. Not a full recovery. I still get extremely tired at times. I'm actually going through a phase of sedentary life. Long story. Essentially i need to get on the push bike again. 

So you could say I'm over it, however its more like its just normalised now. I manage it better. Its amazing how much pain the human body can endure. My entire body aches, but I can move past it. 

Mind over matter

Cobber thanks for your info...optimalization...NOT recovery...maybe the best option available...

[url]https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/long-covid-news-contrary-to-claims-that-long-covid-resolves-within-a-year,-new-american-review-suggests-that-long-covid-may-last-indefinitely-for-some[/url] or https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/long-covid-news-contrary-to-claims-that-long-covid-resolves-within-a-year,-new-american-review-suggests-that-long-covid-may-last-indefinitely-for-some - https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/long-covid-news-contrary-to-claims-that-long-covid-resolves-within-a-year,-new-american-review-suggests-that-long-covid-may-last-indefinitely-for-some with a link to [url]https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2[/url] or https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2 - https://www.nature.com/articles/s41579-022-00846-2 ;

Introduction; 

Hundreds of biomedical findings have been documented, with many patients experiencing dozens of symptoms across multiple organ systems7 (Fig. 1). Long COVID encompasses multiple adverse outcomes, with common new-onset conditions including cardiovascular, thrombotic and cerebrovascular disease8, type 2 diabetes9, myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS)10,11 and dysautonomia, especially postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS)12 (Fig. 2). Symptoms can last for years13, and particularly in cases of new-onset ME/CFS and dysautonomia are expected to be lifelong14. With significant proportions of individuals with long COVID unable to return to work7, the scale of newly disabled individuals is contributing to labour shortages15. There are currently no validated effective treatments.

DJ...Since both Long CoViD and ME/CFS (as Post Viral Syndrome) are complex stories with many aspects;

-Each case will have his/her own story and chances

-"Living with it" may be more realistic then finding a "total cure"...

-Avoiding more damage (by mental pressure-pushing people into depression etc) should be top-priority

-Improvement via optimalization-focus on some basic points making life worth living- may be the best strategy

-Testing for shortages/problems (Vitamin B12 etc) can also improve health

DJ-We should STOP spreading all kinds of viral infections...Masks should be a fashion item...Just like sun glasses or an umbrella !

https://twitter.com/vipintukur" style="cursor: pointer; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; transition-duration: 0.2s; transition-property: background-color, box-shadow; outline-style: none; width: 52px; height: 52px;" tabindex="-1">

https://twitter.com/vipintukur" style="cursor: pointer; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none; -

- Vipin M. Vashishtha

https://twitter.com/vipintukur" style="cursor: pointer; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); color: inherit; font: inherit; list-style: none; margin: 0px; text-align: inherit; text-decoration: none; -webkit-box-align: stretch; -webkit-box-direction: normal; -webkit-box-orient: vertical; align-items: stretch; border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 1; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; z-index: 0; max-width: 100%; outline-style: none;" tabindex="-1 -

·

May 2

What’s #LongCovid? No, it’s not a ‘functional neurological disorder’ or a ‘psychosomatic illness’. “People with #LongCovid now have different physiology to people who do not have Long COVID.” There are 5 different ways by which symptoms of LongCovid may be caused

[url]https://twitter.com/vipintukur/status/1653226036275081216/photo/1[/url] or https://twitter.com/vipintukur/status/1653226036275081216/photo/1 - https://twitter.com/vipintukur/status/1653226036275081216/photo/1  

1 Immune dysregulation

2 Micro-biota dysbiosis

3 Auto-immunity and immune priming

4 Blood clotting and endothelial abnormalities

5 Dysfunctional neurological signalling

[url]https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/study-finds-that-inflammation-causes-heart-cells-to-produce-a-protein-called-isg15-that-sticks-to-other-proteins-causing-heart-failure[/url] or https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/study-finds-that-inflammation-causes-heart-cells-to-produce-a-protein-called-isg15-that-sticks-to-other-proteins-causing-heart-failure - https://www.thailandmedical.news/news/study-finds-that-inflammation-causes-heart-cells-to-produce-a-protein-called-isg15-that-sticks-to-other-proteins-causing-heart-failure  

DJ-One problem comparing ME-CFS with Long/Chronic CoViD is lack of clear definitions for BOTH conditions....

DJ, A call for better pandemic preparation and long term health issues 

[url]https://mecvs.nl/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023.10.17-Addressing-the-impact-of-infection-associated-chronic-conditions-in-future-pandemic-preparedness-United-Nations.pdf[/url] or https://mecvs.nl/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023.10.17-Addressing-the-impact-of-infection-associated-chronic-conditions-in-future-pandemic-preparedness-United-Nations.pdf - https://mecvs.nl/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/2023.10.17-Addressing-the-impact-of-infection-associated-chronic-conditions-in-future-pandemic-preparedness-United-Nations.pdf ;

Addressing the impact of infection-associated chronic conditions in future pandemic preparedness 

Your Excellency Mr Dennis Francis, 

We write to you as a coalition of myalgic encephalomyelitis (ME), long COVID, dysautonomia and infection-associated chronic condition organizations. 

Firstly, we commend the adoption of the recent Political Declaration of the United Nations General Assembly High-level Meeting on Pandemic Prevention, Preparedness and Response (20th September 2023). The commitments outlined in this declaration are vital for enhancing global readiness to tackle future pandemics effectively. 

However, we wish to bring to your attention a critical aspect that was regrettably not addressed within this important declaration. 

The COVID-19 pandemic has brought greater attention to the significant and often overlooked issue of chronic illness triggered by infectious diseases. 

Long COVID, also known as Post-COVID-19 condition, has emerged as a widespread concern. An estimated one in ten SARS-COV-2 infections is leading to long COVID, affecting millions worldwide. 

These individuals experience a constellation of persistent symptoms, including post-exertional malaise, extreme fatigue, shortness of breath, cognitive dysfunction, unrefreshing sleep, orthostatic intolerance and widespread pain. 

Research now suggests 50% of those with long COVID meet the criteria for an ME diagnosis, and over 70% have developed dysautonomia. These conditions have a profound impact on the lives of those affected, causing severe debility and often leading to social and economic consequences. 

Moreover, historical records show that after previous pandemics and epidemics, from the Greek plague of 430 BC to the Spanish Flu of 1918 to the 2014 Ebola virus disease outbreak, there have been accounts of individuals who never fully recover, living with chronic illnesses that often mirror the symptoms of ME and dysautonomia. 

This pattern underscores the importance of recognizing infection-associated chronic illnesses as a recurring issue following pandemics, with long-lasting implications for affected individuals and society as a whole. 

Therefore, we respectfully urge the United Nations and its member states to consider addressing this significant gap in pandemic preparedness and response. 

We call for future initiatives and strategies related to pandemic preparedness to explicitly include actions on the impact of infection-associated chronic illnesses, such as long COVID, ME, POTS and other forms of dysautonomia and more. 

Vitally, these efforts should encompass research and recognition, with immediate recommendations to invest in research to understand the underlying mechanisms of these conditions, facilitate early diagnosis, and improve recognition, medical education and treatment. 

We kindly request your support in raising awareness of this matter within the United Nations and among member states. 

We, the undersigned, are committed to providing aid and being a resource for the UN and member states in this endeavour. 

Together, we can work towards a more inclusive and responsive approach to pandemic preparedness that considers the long-term health and well-being of all individuals affected by infectious diseases. 

Thank you for your attention to this critical issue. We look forward to the opportunity to discuss this matter further with yourself or an appropriate colleague and collaborate towards a healthier and more resilient world for all. Yours sincerely,

DJ Over 65 million people worldwide deal with Long CoViD and that number is growing fast...Over 32 organizations did sign this letter...

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome[/url] or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chronic_fatigue_syndrome and [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID[/url] or  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_COVID  may give some indication on definitions....

[url]https://rthm.com/articles/viral-reactivation-and-long-covid/[/url] or https://rthm.com/articles/viral-reactivation-and-long-covid/ - https://rthm.com/articles/viral-reactivation-and-long-covid/ ;

As the COVID pandemic continues to hit another wave with the Omicron variant and researchers continue to look for the development of new variant mutations, other researchers have found that the SARS-CoV-2 may not be the only virus at play during this pandemic. In fact, the reactivation of other latent viruses may play a role in the severity of COVID cases, as well as the development of Long COVID. But what are latent viruses and what does viral reactivation mean?

What is a Latent Virus?

A latent virus occurs when the viral RNA or DNA remains in the cells of the body after initial infection. These viruses do not replicate or cause disease symptoms during this latent period; however, they may be transmissible to others. These viruses can remain in the body for years (in most cases, for a lifetime) without ever causing symptoms or recurrent infections. However, outside agents, such as stress or additional viral infections, can trigger a viral reactivation of these latent viruses.

What is Viral Reactivation?

During viral reactivation, these dormant, latent viruses switch back on into what is known as the lytic phase. During this phase, the virus is capable of replication and can cause symptoms in the host. These symptoms can be similar to the initial viral infection, or a person may develop completely new symptoms when the virus reactivates. One common example of this is the varicella-zoster virus that causes chickenpox. During the initial infection of the virus, a person experiences a chickenpox infection or varicella. Once the infection passes, the virus remains in the ganglionic neurons of the body as a latent virus. When reactivated, this virus triggers herpes zoster or shingles.

Common Latent Viruses You May Already Have

Unfortunately, it is likely you already have one, if not many, latent viruses within your body. In fact, the Epstein-Barr virus (EBV), responsible for causing mononucleosis (mono), is estimated to https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6008310/" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  infect more than 90% of the human population worldwide. Common viruses that remain in the body in a latent state include:

• Herpes simplex virus type 1 (oral herpes, such as cold sores)
• Herpes simplex virus type 2 (genital herpes)
• Varicella-zoster virus
• Epstein-Barr virus
• Cytomegalovirus
• Human herpesvirus 6
• Kaposi sarcoma-associated herpesvirus
• John Cunningham (JC) virus
• BK virus
• Parvovirus B19
• Adenovirus
• HIV

Prevalence of Latent Viruses in Population

Chances are you have at least one latent virus in your body. Researchers estimate that more than 90% of the population has EBV. The https://www.who.int/news/item/01-05-2020-massive-proportion-world-population-living-with-herpes-infection" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  World Health Organization estimates that 13.2% of the world’s population has HSV-2 and 66.6% have HSV-1. Before the development of the varicella vaccine in 1995, estimates suggest https://www.uptodate.com/contents/epidemiology-of-varicella-zoster-virus-infection-chickenpox" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  95% of Americans acquired the varicella virus before the age of 20. In most cases, viral reactivation causes a similar infection to the original infection. However, some viruses can reactivate and play a role in https://www.merckmanuals.com/professional/infectious-diseases/herpesviruses/overview-of-herpesvirus-infections" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  additional conditions , such as certain cancers and chronic conditions. For example, EBV has been linked to Hodgkin lymphoma, Burkitt lymphoma, gastric cancer,  https://rthm.com/what-is-myalgic-encephalomyelitis-chronic-fatigue-syndrome-me-cfs/" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); - myalgic encephalomyelitis/chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS) , and most recently, researchers have implicated https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/epstein-barr-virus-may-be-leading-cause-of-multiple-sclerosis/" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  EBV in multiple sclerosis (MS) and severe COVID infection and  https://rthm.com/what-is-long-covid/" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); - Long COVID .

Is SARS-CoV-2 Causing Viral Reactivation?

We know that when a person has acute COVID-19, there is a significant reduction in the T cells: immune cells that typically keep these herpes viruses in a latent form. Because of this reduction, researchers are seeing that infection with the SARS-CoV-2 virus is triggering the reactivation of these latent viruses. These latent viruses then enter an active state, causing symptoms. 

For example, many Long COVID patients experience severe and debilitating fatigue that often leads to a comorbid diagnosis of ME/CFS. 

The reactivation of EBV is often connected to ME/CFS, so researchers began looking at the connection between Long COVID and EBV. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8233978/?report=classic" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  A recent study looked at the connection between Long COVID and EBV and found that 66.7% of their study subjects with Long COVID were positive for EBV reactivation.

How Do You Know if SARS-CoV-2 Reactivated EBV or Another Virus?

As doctors and researchers learn more about Long COVID and the possible connection between symptoms and latent virus reactivation, targeting these additional viruses may be a necessary component of your treatment protocol. https://www.cdc.gov/epstein-barr/laboratory-testing.html" style="box-sizing: border-box; text-decoration: underline; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); -webkit-font-smoothing: antialiased; margin-block: 0px; padding-inline: 0px; padding-block: 0px; margin-inline: 0px; cursor: pointer; transition: all 350ms ease 0s; text-underline-offset: 0.25em; font-size: inherit; font-family: "Suisse Int'l", "Helvetica Neue", Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif; font-weight: normal; font-style: normal; line-height: 23.25px; text-rendering: optimizelegibility; color: rgb(0, 50, 78); -  Blood tests can identify if any of these potential latent viruses are activated. Testing for these will likely become a part of your initial blood workup when seeking medical treatment for Long COVID symptoms.

see also;

[url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein%E2%80%93Barr_virus#[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein%E2%80%93Barr_virus# - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein%E2%80%93Barr_virus# ;

The Epstein–Barr virus (EBV), formally called Human gammaherpesvirus 4, is one of the nine known  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpesviridae#Human_herpesvirus_types" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="Herpesviridae - human herpesvirus types  in the  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herpesviridae" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="Herpesviridae - herpes family , and is one of the most common  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virus" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="Virus - viruses  in humans. EBV is a  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DNA_virus#Double-stranded_DNA_viruses" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="DNA virus - double-stranded DNA virus . ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein%E2%80%93Barr_virus#cite_note-pmid-32847820-2" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; - [2]}  Epstein–Barr virus (EBV) is the first identified  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oncogenic_virus" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="Oncogenic virus - oncogenic virus , which establishes permanent infection in humans. EBV causes infectious  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mononucleosis" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="Mononucleosis - mononucleosis  and is also tightly linked to many malignant diseases. Various  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaccine" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none rgb(255, 255, 255); overflow-wrap: break-word; font-family: sans-serif; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant-ligatures: normal; font-variant-caps: normal; font-weight: 400; letter-spacing: normal; orphans: 2; text-align: start; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; widows: 2; word-spacing: 0px; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal;" title="Vaccine - vaccine  formulations underwent testing in different animals or in humans. However, none of them were able to prevent EBV infection and no vaccine has been approved to date. ^{https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epstein%E2%80%93Barr_virus#cite_note-3" style="text-decoration: none; color: rgb(51, 102, 204); background: none; overflow-wrap: break-word; - [3]}

DJ, Why some people develop ME/CVS and most others do not is a big ???

-

when you actually dig into their logic and rationale (outside of running expensive courses, siphoning gvt funding for pointless research and patting one another on the backs) for pushing GET and CBT, I think the most disappointing thing is just how simple their thinking is. 2/

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https://twitter.com/PutrinoLab" style="align-items: stretch; background-color: rgba(0, 0, 0, 0); border: 0px solid black; box-sizing: border-box; display: flex; flex-basis: auto; flex-direction: column; flex-shrink: 0; list-style: none; margin: 0px; min-height: 0px; min-width: 0px; padding: 0px; position: relative; text-decoration: none; z-index: 0; width: 43.98px; cursor: pointer; outline-style: none; height: 43.98px; transition-property: background-color, box-shadow; transition-duration: 0.2s;" tabindex="-1">

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funding to study these conditions only to conclude: "you say you're sick, but a bunch of basic, mainstream tests say you're not, so instead I'm going to label you as mentally ill and deconditioned and force you to exercise and tell you to think more positively". That's it. 4/

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That's the culmination of 50 years of research for some of these "experts". Obviously people are going to think that I'm being reductionist here and not respectful of decades of nuanced research on the topic only I'm not: they've been banging the same drum and faulty science 5/

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for multiple generations and enough is enough. Here's the message: We're learning more every single day about the pathobiology of ORGANIC post-acute infection syndromes such as #LongCOVID, #MECFS and chronic #lyme. Disease states that affect every single organ in the body. 6/

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Every day we are seeing publications emerge showing hard evidence of physiological damage that cannot be explained away with your pseudoscientific framing of a 'functional' illness. What do we get in response? Opinion pieces and junk science published because you have mates in 7/

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editorial positions at vanity journals after decades of controlling funding lines. Well congrats on that, but the door on your pseudoscience is closing, and let me tellyou one thing that should chill you to the bone. This community of patients that you have psychologized and 8/

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and minimized for so long? They are passionate. They are fastidious. They are determined. They are WAY smarter than you, and...they keep receipts. Sleep tight, and, as always: see you in hell.  /end

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DJ, Denying a problem may be a cheap way out...If science proofs the world has a lot more health risks it "would hurt the economy"...so "bla-bla-science" is "the outcome...