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Online Discussion: Tracking new emerging diseases and the next pandemic since 2005; Coronavirus COVID-19 Pandemic Discussion Forum.

SECONDARY PNEUMONIA FROM SEVERE FLU

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apomales View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apomales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2006 at 2:56pm
"Typically, influenza causes death due to a secondary bacterial pneumonia. Bacteria are able to take advantage of the hosts compromised immune status and damaged lung cells, establishing a potentially deadly infection. However, during the 1918 pandemic, a greater percentage of the deaths in the 20-45 age group were due to primary pneumonia: pneumonia caused by a combination of the influenza virus and the host response, with no bacterial invaders involved. In some patients, this occurred within a matter of hours from the first symptoms. A Pennsylvania medical student documented the phenomenon:


As their lungs filled, the patients became short of breath and increasingly cyanotic. After gasping for several hours, they became delirious and incontinent, and many died struggling to clear their airways of a blood-tinged froth that sometimes gushed from their nose and mouth. It was a dreadful business." Source :aetiologyblogspot.com
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apomales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2006 at 3:06pm
Protective effect of pneumococcal vaccine against death by pneumonia in elderly subjects
A. Vila-Crcoles1, O. Ochoa-Gondar1, C. Llor1, I. Hospital1, T. Rodrguez2 and A. Gmez1
1 EVAN-65 Group of Primary Care Service Tarragona-Valls, Institut Catal de la Salut, Tarragona, and 2 Dept of Statistic and Research of Jordi Gol i Gurina, Barcelona, Spain.

CORRESPONDENCE: A. Vila-Corcoles, Institut Catal de la Salut, Prat de la Riba 39, Tarragona 43001, Spain. Fax: 34 977226411. E-mail: avila.tarte.ics@gencat.net

Keywords: Effectiveness, elderly, mortality, pneumococcal vaccine, pneumonia

Received: March 15, 2005
Accepted August 14, 2005

The present study assessed the effectiveness of the 23-valent pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine to prevent pneumonia and death in older adults in a first-time report between January and December 2002.

A prospective cohort study was conducted including all individuals 65 yrs of age assigned to one of eight primary care centres in Tarragona, Spain (n = 11,241). The primary outcomes were community-acquired pneumonia (hospitalised or outpatient) and death from pneumonia. All pneumonias were validated by checking clinical records. The association between the pneumococcal vaccination and the risk of each outcome was evaluated by means of multivariate Cox proportional-hazard models, adjusted by age, sex, influenza vaccination status, comorbidity and immunological status.

Pneumococcal vaccination did not alter the risk of hospitalisation from pneumonia (hazard ratio (HR): 0.80; 95% confidence interval (CI): 0.501.28) or overall pneumonia (HR: 0.86; 95% CI: 0.561.31), but the vaccine was associated with considerable reductions of death risk from pneumonia (HR: 0.28; 95% CI: 0.090.83).

In conclusion, these results suggest that pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine may not be effective in reducing the incidence of pneumonia, but may be able to diminish the severity of the infection. These findings support the effectiveness of the pneumococcal polysaccharide vaccine to prevent mortality caused by pneumonia in older adults, providing a new argument to recommend systematic vaccination in the elderly.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2006 at 3:19pm

 From above: "the vaccine was associated with considerable reductions of death risk from pneumonia."

good enough for me.  minimuize death from complications if I do get it.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2006 at 3:30pm

Simply put, if you get the vax, you will live.   You can't beat that deal!

I sure wish there was a way to let the world know.    

We should all be pushing our friends and families to get this done.  Even the worst BF critics seem to get it done when you tell them.   Try it! 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote apomales Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2006 at 3:34pm
http://www.biomedcentral.com/1471-2296/1/1#IDAYSRPAB

Pretty good article on effectivness of pneumonia vaccine, there appears to be a lot of controversy on its effectiveness, considering there is little else available other than anti-virals, I still think it's worth getting. One last thing some parents mentioned the difficulty of getting the shot from the health department. It may help to get a script from the pediatrician (if the doctor will comply). The Health Department told me that I have to bring a copy of my children's shot records. It is much more difficult to get this shot for children than adults. My pediatrician also referred me to the County Health Department. I plan to ask my pediatrician for a script to take to the Health Department (best not to even mention bird flu).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 15 2006 at 3:39pm

Good Job Apomales !

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 1:37am
Hi everybody,


got my pneumo vax an hour ago!! .

They said it included the meningitis-strain, so I've got that covered too
The vaccin was Pneumo-23. I had to pay 35 euro (that's what, 40 dollar?)

There were no questions asked, even though I'm  a healthy 42 LOL


Thanks for the advice to get this shot!!!

Marjo,
The Netherlands
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 4:29am

Marjo my friend.  I have been waiting until today for you to update us.   I would tell you that I thought about you last night, but it might not sound right LOL. 

This is going to be a good day! 

GOOD JOB!

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote drizztcat Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 5:24am
the flu shot wont do you any good against the bird flu people wake up and smell the coffee
drizzt
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 5:39am

Drizzt,

how bout wake up and read the post. They are talking about pnomenoia vaccine shot. not flu shot.

The only shot available to the public that will stop BF is called

a " 357 Magnum" . Ask for the "hollow point." by name.

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 6:21am

I knew drizz was going to say that....

For anyone else that actually takes the time to read this thread, please let us know if you have been unable to get your vaccination because your doctor has refused so we can all figure it out.   Don't give up!   

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marjo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 9:16am

I was wondering:
is my Pneumo-23 vaccin the same as your (american) one?

Mine containted 0.5 ml with the following polysaccharidetypes:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6b, 7f, 8, 9n, 10a, 11a, 12f, 14, 15b, 17f, 18c, 19a and f, 20, 22f, 23f and 33f.

It was manufactured in Belgium by Aventis Pasteur MSD.


Marjo,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 9:46am

Hello I just wanted you all to know that all the walk-in clinics in my state will not give you this vaccination per your request. I have called over 200 places in my state with no luck. My children most likely will not be vaccinated. My husband and I do have appointments tomorrow which took a very long time to get authorized by our primary doctors for the ok. It was like a 2 week process.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 9:52am

wow.  Maybe everybody should come out to California and get it. 

I have gotten 12 people in California to get it at various walkin clinics with no problem at all.  In fact, one place was already sold out so one friend of mine had to visit another location.  Again, he got it no problem and with no questions asked.  I have had three people get it at Keizer in California, and two people get it at Keizer in Oregon.  Again, no problems whatsoever. 



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I found a place for my 3 kids, however I have to travel 4 hours one way (8 all together) to get there and my husband says no, due to the cost of the travel and the shots.

I had my mother vac. 2 months ago after I told her.

My husband has to take 1/2 of the day off due to location as to where we have to go to get our shots and losing money over it.

Needless to say I am so frustrated and my family is getting agitated with me.

I just am so worried about my kids; I guess I will have to do it behind my husbands back.

Wish me luck and with the HUBBY!

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 10:30am

I got mine about 2 weeks ago.  Finally got my wife in to get hers today. I haven't heard of anyone having any problems getting a pneumonia vaccine around here (Louisville, KY).  I've even started talking about the vaccine to friends and relatives.  Most of the people that I've talked to believe it's a good idea to get the flu shot every year -  So when I find out  that they've gotten the flu shot I tell them about the pneumonia vaccine.  I fugure it can't hurt.  I get mostly positive feedback.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote halogen601 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 10:42am

Dolphin,

I took off from work early this past Friday and drove to my doctor to get a pneumonia shot.  I was assured from two previous phone calls that I could walk in without seeing the doctor. Once I got there from Jeffersonville, I was told that I would have to see the doctor since I had a shot given to me at the Kroger store in 1999 and they had no record.  Did you get your shot at the doctor or at a clinic? If at a clinic, which one did you go to?  If at the doctor's office, had you had a previous shot?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 10:54am

Good job on the friends and relatives Dolphin. 

Good luck April!



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 11:11am

I wished I had an easier time getting this shot for my family. But, everything has worked out. I will make a day trip to get the shots for the kids and enjoy the area once we are thheree. (4 hours plus there 4 hours plus hours back + 3 kids in a small car = H E double hockey sticks). I also will take my mother for help. As for my husband and I we are good too. So it all worked out, sorry I was so negative before, just frustrated.

April

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dolphin Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 11:26am

halogen601,

I went to my PCP.  I did have to see the Dr.  He likes to listen to my lungs and ask how I'm doing.  Or maybe he just likes to make sure he gets his $$$ out of my visit.  Anyhow, if I were you, I'd just try a clinic or the health dept.  I sent you an answer to your PM.  Don't give up!  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote halogen601 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 11:59am
Thanks Dolphin.  I relented and called my doctor for an afternoon appointment tomorrow.  Since my regular doctor is on medical leave, hopefully the new one won't reprimand me for my smoking cessation weight gain.  And I was pleasantly surprised that my insurance covers the cost of the vaccine.  Folks are saying that immunity builds after two or so weeks.  Judging by the increased coverage today by MSNBC, the bird flu issue certainly seems like a viable threat.  With that, I think I'm going to go outside and enjoy the beautiful Kentuckiana weather today.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 7:42pm

I got our shots at a walk in clinic by Mohammad Yusariff. His wife ran the front desk. I hope we spoke the right language and I have to trust him as to what was in the hypodermics.  Hope he's ethical.

He could be laughing right now with my $$$ saying "Remember   9/11"



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 16 2006 at 8:19pm

I almost fell off my chair I was laughing so hard.  Too funny......

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...........
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Sorry to disappoint you, but the avian flu killer pneumonia is a VIRAL pneumonia and not bacterial. That's why they're stockpiling Tamiflu and that's why people are dieing instead of taking antibiotics and walk away.

A bacterial pneumonia shot won't protect you at all against bird flu death. You can take it if you like, but don't feel safe at all.

Just google "avian/bird flu" and "viral pneumonia" and you'll see yourself.

Also: the Wyeth vaccine contains mercury, while the Aventis one is mercury-free. If you really want to take it, please check.

Just my 2 cents, sorry for my bad english

Lilla from EU
---Bad english spoken---
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 7:28am

Originally posted by Lilla Lilla wrote:

Sorry to disappoint you, but the avian flu killer pneumonia is a VIRAL pneumonia and not bacterial. That's why they're stockpiling Tamiflu and that's why people are dieing instead of taking antibiotics and walk away.

A bacterial pneumonia shot won't protect you at all against bird flu death. You can take it if you like, but don't feel safe at all.

Just google "avian/bird flu" and "viral pneumonia" and you'll see yourself.

Also: the Wyeth vaccine contains mercury, while the Aventis one is mercury-free. If you really want to take it, please check.

Just my 2 cents, sorry for my bad english

Lilla from EU

Lilla,

According to Gregory D Harrington, D.O., Center for Infectious Diseases and Pulmonary Medicine; who is a very prestigious Doctor, among various other Doctors who I have spoken to in reference to this same topic infers your statement is incorrect.

 

Here is Dr. Harringtons most recent slide that shows the

 

Complications of Influenza being:

         Primary viral pneumonia

         Secondary bacterial pneumonia

         Bacterial sinusitis

         Myositis

         Myocarditis / pericarditis

         Guillian-Barre syndrome

         Reyes Syndrome

 

In that order.

Mind you viral can cause bacterial pneumonia. It is no question that the viral is the primary, but the secondary is bacterial (which is considered the most serious).

This pneumonia shot has shown in studies to protect against the viral also. Research, In tests in more than 37,000 children in South Africa, the pneumococcal vaccine also prevented 31% of pneumonia associated with any of seven respiratory viruses, researchers said. (read more below)

Please read: Bacterial pneumonia vaccine may protect in viral cases

 

WASHINGTON (AP) A vaccine designed to prevent bacterial pneumonia also reduced the number of virus-related cases of the disease, according to research that indicates the two types of infection may interact.

In tests in more than 37,000 children in South Africa, the pneumococcal vaccine also prevented 31% of pneumonia associated with any of seven respiratory viruses, researchers said.

Their results were reported in this week's online edition of the journal Nature Medicine.

The discovery that the bacterial vaccine also blocks some viral illness indicates that "bacteria and viruses can interact together to cause disease in humans," said Keith Klugman, a professor of infectious disease at Emory University in Atlanta who led the team of researchers.

He said the finding also indicates that children with severe pneumonia should have access to antibiotics.

Antibiotics attack bacteria but not viruses, so these drugs are not generally used in viral infections. If an illness results from a combination of bacteria and viruses, antibiotics might help by attacking the bacteria.

Pekka Nuorti, a medical epidemiologist with national immunization program at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, said some cases of pneumonia that are thought to be caused by a virus actually result from a combination of both infections.

"Therefore they're preventable by the vaccine," he said.

Michael Kurilla of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases said that physicians long have had the impression that viral infections precede the development of potentially more severe bacterial infections.

"We believe in many cases of influenza, the damage the virus does to the lung sets up the opportunity for the bacteria to get in there," Kurilla said.

He said the new study suggests the opposite: the bacterial infection creating damage that allows for a viral infection to come in on top of it.

"What it may be saying is, these things can go wither way," said Kurilla.

The important thing, he said, is that the pneumococcal vaccine worked against the bacteria as well as nearly one-third of viral cases, a factor in considering the cost-benefit value of the vaccine.

Neither Kurilla nor Nuorti was a part of the research team.

In addition to pneumonia, the vaccine protects against other pneumococcal illnesses such as meningitis, blood infections and ear infections.

Klugman's paper notes that childhood vaccination has been shown to reduce pneumococcal illnesses in adults. It also suggests studies to determine whether the vaccine also reduces the incidence of pneumonia and influenza among adults.

The type of pneumococcal vaccine used in the tests has been in short supply in the United States. The government had recommended that doctors postpone the normal third and fourth doses for healthy children until supplies grow.

That recommendation was modified last week, advising doctors to go ahead with the third dose while deferring the fourth.

The vaccine is made by Wyeth Vaccines, which was a sponsor of Klugman's research. The research was also supported by the World Health Organization.


Copyright 2005 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2004-07-11-vaccine_x.htm

 

More info at:

 

http://www.postgradmed.com/issues/1999/04_99/PN_Recognizing_ Pneumonia.pdf#search='pneumonia%20bacterial%20viral%20helps% 20flu'

 

http://www.healthandage.com/html/well_connected/pdf/doc64.pd f#search='pneumonia%20bacterial%20viral%20helps%20flu '

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 9:59am

The hubby and I had our shots today, now for the kidos in the next day. Can not wait for the 8 hours trip, but I am going to do it. Good things is that they accept my insurance, see there was a silver lining after all.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 10:55am
I'm not saying it's completely useless: everybody knows that in viral infections you can get bacterial infections too, but please don't say (as I've seen some posts before) that a pneumonia shot will save your life for sure since in case of bird flu you won't get the deadly pneumonia.
This is simply NOT true.

Don't encourage people to get a pneumonia shot then walk around like they're immune to death risks, because it's not, and you expose them at getting the flu then subsequently die of viral pneumonia.

Just my 2 cents, sorry for bad english
---Bad english spoken---
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Originally posted by Lilla Lilla wrote:

I'm not saying it's completely useless: everybody knows that in viral infections you can get bacterial infections too, but please don't say (as I've seen some posts before) that a pneumonia shot will save your life for sure since in case of bird flu you won't get the deadly pneumonia.
This is simply NOT true.

Don't encourage people to get a pneumonia shot then walk around like they're immune to death risks, because it's not, and you expose them at getting the flu then subsequently die of viral pneumonia.

Just my 2 cents, sorry for bad english

No one that I know of on this board feels that way. We just think that it may help; the only way to prevent the Avian flu is isolation according to many of us. This shot is just precautionary. We do not believe that there will be a magic bullet. Sorry that you thought we were trying to say that.

PS - Did not note any bad Engish; very good matter-of-fact!

PPS - Thanks for the Great TIP!: The Wyeth vaccine contains mercury, while the Aventis one is mercury-free. If you really want to take it, please check.



Edited by KillerFlu.net
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Pneumonia shot can aid flu victims
There's no shortage of vaccine to stem dangerous complications
By Lauran Neergaard and Mitch Stacy
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
 

WASHINGTON - The flu shot shortage makes it more imperative for elderly Americans to get a second, often overlooked, vaccine that protects against a type of pneumonia germ that's a common complication of influenza.

Called pneumococcal vaccine, it's a one-time shot for anyone 65 or older. Younger people with heart and lung diseases, diabetes or weak immune systems need it too.
 
It's not a replacement for a flu shot; high-risk patients should continue trying to find that.
 
Meanwhile, U.S. Health and Human Services Secretary Tommy Thompson said Monday that enough flu vaccine will be available for most people who need it. He told seniors to stop standing in long lines to get a shot.
 
"We want people to relax," he said at a news conference. "The flu season is not here."
 
Many of the same people most vulnerable to flu also are at high risk from this dangerous bacterial infection. They need the pneumococcal vaccine anyway - and this fall marks a good time to get it, especially if they can't find a flu shot.
 
"Absolutely," said Dr. Gregory Poland of the Mayo Clinic, who advises the government on pneumococcal vaccine. "It's a good backup to prevent the complications of influenza."
 
Pima County health officials also recommend the vaccine.
 
"The pneumococcal vaccine protects against one type of bacterial pneumonia. So it can reduce your chances of getting that complication from flu," said Dr. Elizabeth MacNeill, medical director of the Pima County Health Department.
 
But it does not mean a high-risk person won't develop a severe case of flu, she said, and it does not protect against other types of pneumonia that can develop from flu.
 
"That's why we'd still like to see people get their flu shots," she said.
 
The pneumococcal vaccine is recommended for the same high-risk group that is top priority for the scarce flu vaccine this year. Most elderly Americans already have received it as a part of routine health care, MacNeill said.
 
"There is no shortage of the pneumococcal vaccine. It should be easy to get through your doctor," MacNeill said.
 
Medicare pays for the shot; for younger patients, the cost ranges from $30 to $50.
 
Despite its name, the pneumococcal vaccine protects against more than pneumonia. It prevents deadly blood infections and meningitis, too, caused by a bacterium called pneumococcus. It's a scary germ because it causes so much damage so rapidly.
 
Poland described a seemingly healthy grandmother who one day felt a little achy and feverish. The next day, she was rushed to a hospital - and doctors watched in horror as jet-black, gangrenous streaks gradually formed on her limbs. The germs had infected the woman's bloodstream.
 
"To save her, they would have to cut away parts of her," Poland recalled.
 
Her hands and feet amputated, she now uses a wheelchair.
 
Federal data show that each year, 175,000 Americans are hospitalized with pneumococcal-caused pneumonia. In addition, the germ causes more than 50,000 blood infections and up to 6,000 cases of meningitis. Almost 6,000 die.
 
A childhood vaccine, called Prevnar, has proved very effective at battling seven pneumococcal strains common in babies and toddlers.
 
But millions of adults are at high risk from additional strains of the germ and thus need the adult version of the vaccine, according to the federal Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. They are:
 
Everyone 65 and older.
 
Anyone with diabetes, heart disease, chronic lung disease except asthma, chronic liver disease or kidney failure.
 
Anyone with weakened immune systems from cancer, HIV or organ transplants.
 
People without a functioning spleen or who have sickle cell disease.
 
Residents of long-term-care facilities.
 
Every fall, the CDC issues a call for those people to get the vaccine, called Pneumovax - a call this year overshadowed by the flu shot crisis.
 
The government hopes to have 90 percent of the elderly vaccinated against pneumococcal disease by 2010, but 63 percent are now. Even fewer of the younger high-risk patients are thought to be protected.
 
While one shot lasts the elderly a lifetime, anyone younger than 65 when he or she gets the adult vaccination needs a booster after five years.
 
Seniors around the country have been standing in lines at shopping plazas to get flu shots since news of a shortage surfaced this month. British regulators shut down shipments from Chiron Corp., which had made millions of flu shots earmarked for the U.S. market. The shutdown cut the U.S. supply of flu shots almost in half.
 
Thompson, the health secretary, said the flu vaccine supply will be reallocated to parts of the country where it is needed most. Most at risk for severe complications from the flu are seniors and very young children.
 
"We are looking all over the regions to find out where there is a shortage, and we will redeploy the resources to make sure the seniors get the vaccine first," he said. He noted that 91 percent of flu deaths last year were among people 65 or older.
 
Thompson advised people to first seek the shot from their doctor or a clinic. If that fails, they should contact the CDC in Atlanta, he said.
 
Thompson said there are still 20 million doses for seniors and 4 million doses for children that are being shipped out at a rate of about 3 million per week.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 12:40pm

Originally posted by Marjo Marjo wrote:


I was wondering:
is my Pneumo-23 vaccin the same as your (american) one?

Mine containted 0.5 ml with the following polysaccharidetypes:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6b, 7f, 8, 9n, 10a, 11a, 12f, 14, 15b, 17f, 18c, 19a and f, 20, 22f, 23f and 33f.

It was manufactured in Belgium by Aventis Pasteur MSD.


Marjo,
The Netherlands

Yes it is the same according to my Drs office that I asked today, hope this helps!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 12:45pm
Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Any walk-in clinic in the country will give you the vaccination, no questions asked.  Of course, they will charge you more, but at least they will do it. 

I read today this is true probably because you are in an area that this vaccination have taken priority due to the rate of infection in your area (history). Where I live not so much, so it is very hard for us to get it as easily as you on the west cost. This makes way more sense to me now!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote halogen601 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 3:20pm

Hey Albert and Dolphin,

I just got back from the doctor's office.  We had a heart to heart discussion and he did not want to authorize the shot citing that a healthy immune system associated with a younger person could be detrimental.  When he cited that the pneumonia shot is really only effective at curbing one strain of pneumonia, I asked if his vaccine was the 23-protector poly-sach variety that I hear about on this forum.  A quick look of surprise and he authorized the shot.  The nurse quickly administered the 0.5 ml shot like Marjo had and I was on my way home.  As a bonus, I didn't have to even pay the co-pay because I had overpaid on my last visit.  Oh happy day.  The persistence and wisdom of this forum has empowered me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 3:43pm
Originally posted by halogen601 halogen601 wrote:

Hey Albert and Dolphin,

I just got back from the doctor's office.  We had a heart to heart discussion and he did not want to authorize the shot citing that a healthy immune system associated with a younger person could be detrimental.  When he cited that the pneumonia shot is really only effective at curbing one strain of pneumonia, I asked if his vaccine was the 23-protector poly-sach variety that I hear about on this forum.  A quick look of surprise and he authorized the shot.  The nurse quickly administered the 0.5 ml shot like Marjo had and I was on my way home.  As a bonus, I didn't have to even pay the co-pay because I had overpaid on my last visit.  Oh happy day.  The persistence and wisdom of this forum has empowered me.

Glad to hear the news. So any mention of the weight gain?! I am sure you were worried for no reason, right?!  I did not even get my weight taken on my shot visit.



Edited by KillerFlu.net
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 3:49pm
The adage: "Knowledge is Power" is apropos.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Lilla Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 3:51pm
Killerflu,

Originally posted by Albert Albert wrote:

Simply put, if you get the vax, you will live.   You can't beat that deal!



As you can see, someone here said that with the pneumonia vaccine, you'll live.
This is simply NOT true!
---Bad english spoken---
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote halogen601 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 3:59pm
Now Lilla, we may have these pink bubble clouds that could quickly go poof but do let me and the others enjoy our moment of triumph in being proactive and prepared in a world that seems lives day to day and has forgotten how to prepare. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 4:19pm

halogen, good job lol.   You made them even beg to give it to you by the time you were done with them        

There is not a lot of research on it because there has never been a need for it since 1918 - With regard to using is to prevent the secondary complications from influenza.   Every doctor that I have  talked to says it makes sense. Every one of them?  There  are just no studies on it because there has never been a need until a "Superflu"  emerged.  But who would have thought that would have ever happened?  How do you prepare for a superbug situation?  

 Sure there is a chance that you will still die even though you get the vaccination, but it won't be from the secondary  bacterial pneumonia.  



Edited by Albert
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote halogen601 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 4:40pm
Thanks Albert.  The doctor sternly warned to call him quickly if redness and pain emanated from the site where the pneumonia vaccine was administered, and then he left.  The nurse returned with the shot and I asked her about potential redness and pain.  She quickly retorted that she just ignored any redness and went on with life considering all the years (40) that she has had innoculations.  But Albert, Lilla is correct, in that one never knows about the unknown.  Ironically, I see that Gerald Ford has been hospitalized with pneumonia.  It was during his tenure that he was proactive in staving off the swine flu.  It didn't happen and repercussions were felt with the swine flu vaccine.   Some even attribute this to him not being re-elected.  Nonetheless, my 98 year old grandmother still recalls the misery of 1918 when she was young.  We're seeing bizarre things with nature in the world and it still doesn't hurt to be prepared.  The "order today, arrive tomorrow" regimen that we're accustom to may be interrupted.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Corn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 17 2006 at 5:08pm

another reason pneumonia is allowed to develope in a sick person is because they imobilize (lay flat alot)

When the elderly break hips, thier biggest threat to recovery is pnumonia, The imobility from and injury invites pnomunia.

When you move around or walk your lungs are expiring. aspariation pushes up fluids.

If you cough you should push something up. don't cough and try to supress it. cough it up.

Try to stay mobilized if you are ill. Die fighting!



Edited by Corn
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote LizG Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2006 at 12:49pm
Hi I don't know about the US but in Canada I got my daughter who is 12 vax today with a little white lie. They will vax for free if they have Asthma but nobody called the Dr office to find out, they just went on my word. I don't know if this will help anyone. I think it is necessary for any secondary infections. So to me the little white lie was worth it if it may save her life.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2006 at 2:53pm
Originally posted by KillerFlu.net KillerFlu.net wrote:

 I tried to get my children the Pneumonia Vaccine shot and was turned away.. my doctor and the community health department  both told me that they wouldnt do it because my children were not in high risk groups. After I explained that they have had lung infections before, they still refused. After explaining that it would help against the Avian Flu if it were to hit, the community health nurse laughed at me, saying Do you have chickens and or kiss them?..  you have nothing to worry about.. besides it will never go human to human.

Do not rely on the government nor the healthcare providers. I have had too many of them laugh this off. April

April.. I scheduled an appointment for the Pnuemonia Vaccine at my HMO doctor's office with no questions asked.  I would have got it there for free,  but my appointment was scheduled a week away.  Someone was so anxious about me getting the vaccine that I chose to cancelled my HMO appointment and immediately get the shot at a walk-in medical clinic.  It cost me $71.00.

BTW, I volunteered to the clinic doctor that the only reason I was getting the shot was inorder to appease someone else's worry about the Bird Flu.   Also, at neither office was anything mentioned about a high risk group. 

Several of my friends got their Pnuemonia Vaccine at the same medical clinic.   None of us have children, but had we, I don't believe we would have a problem with them getting the shot.

The medical clinic is independantly owned by a group of doctors.  Perhaps they are open to giving the vaccine because they are in business for themselves.   Do you know of any such medical clinics in your area? Just a thought.   



Edited by Appalled
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A white lie to protect your child?   Your white lie has been excused! LOL.   Furthermore,  GOOD JOB!

April holds the record for driving the longest distance to get it done.   April is truly amazing.  

I think you, halogen and marjo have had the more difficult negotiations.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trigger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2006 at 4:00pm
I got my pneumonia and flu shot today.  Better late than never.
Trigger
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 18 2006 at 4:25pm

WAIT !!!  STOP THE PRESSES !!  WE HAVE A LAST MINUTE ADDITION !

IT'S ABOUT TIME TRIGGER!

Better late than never is right! 

I'm almost starting to feel like Richard Simmons lol.

By the way, whatever happend to Deej.  Did she get it done yet?   We need to stay on her.

 

 



Edited by Albert
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