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PANDEMIC ALERT LEVEL
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Now tracking the new emerging South Africa Omicron Variant

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 19 2022 at 10:01pm

DJ, I do not own this forum (as far as I understand Albert does ???) but maybe time to make some points;

-This is NOT a scientific forum-at best it is a forum on science...Non of us are/can claim to be "experts"

-There is NO room on this forum for insults, threats...try to keep it polite

-By definition all on this forum is an opinion, maybe with links to sources...still this is an opinion-forum !

-We welcome new members, not push them out...

DJ-This forum-like lots of things at present-is in a sort of crisis. On the other hand lots of people try to make up their minds...(I know I do...)...For their reasons lots of former members did leave this forum. 

The point of a forum- a "digital marketplace" is to offer different opinions, to disagree to a certain level...If possible in a polite way...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 20 2022 at 1:42am

Maybe defining my position on this forum; I am not only a guest -this is not my "home"; I have to show respect...but also this forum its goal is to give opinions...also when those opinions are not as "welcome/positive" as some would like them to be..

I am also a host...It is not in my nature to "jump" on people..I rather wait and see what they have to say...

My native language is Dutch, not English...both not being native in English and "typo's" may result in errors...Also sometimes culture may be a factor; the Dutch have a reputation for being direct...In some cultures that is seen as inpolite...

So-again-I would welcome more activity on this forum...based on mutual respect...

reactions welcome !

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 25 2022 at 9:55pm

...I often get the feeling of talking to myself here...I do expect CoVid/pandemics to worsen, that may provide me a reason to stick around a few months longer...Hope to "keep this forum from going under"...Also go further then (shallow at best) main stream media...

Hope to see some constructive activity on this forum...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2022 at 12:50pm

I hear you Josh. It's a pity that the forum isn't very active at the moment. It sort of imploded over the Covid vaccines, which was a good reflection of life in most of the Western world since the vaccines became a black or white subject, with no grey areas at all! 

I'm a member of a number of groups and what I've observed is that many people have drawn a line in the sand and woebetide anyone who dares to cross it. Discussion and tolerance has gone out the window.

The other factor that I think has affected the activity on here is simply Covid fatigue. Everyone is so over it. I am. Here in NZ we only dropped the  compulsory mask mandate last week, about 6 months after the rest of the world, and everyone is so happy about it. The media have been trying to suggest that some sectors of society, mainly the elderly and the clinically vulnerable are upset about it, but not in my experience. I visit a group of elderly women once a week and they are all delighted about it, not at all upset, and I have friends who have parents who are being treated for cancers and the like, and they are all relieved about it too. 

Hopefully the forum will keep ticking along, and then in time it'll pick up again. You're doing a great job though on reporting the facts.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 26 2022 at 9:44pm

KiwiMum, thanks for your reaction, 

-I share the CoViD-fatigue...(with me mixed with frustration over bad strategies)

-Most things in live are not black-or white, "fifty shades of grey" may be more fitting, nuance...

I think this -once-a forum could inform people looking for answers. No one here ever claimed to be the 100% expert-some had/have strong opinions...(I will not mention the Ukraine war...wich could/should have been prevented...)...

So I hope this forum will revive...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2022 at 8:26am

What I would like to see is the breaking news actually being disease related.  That is what this site was built for.  Why is it nothing but war news?  That should be in a different section.  I like to look at it occasionally but I came to this site many, many years ago to hear about all diseases all over the world.  I shouldn't have to sift through war stuff to find the content that this site was created for. Just my opinion!

NOW is the Season to Know

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2022 at 9:36am

roni3470, I understand your point...Maybe it would be wise to seperate "war"issues a bit more-an apart section...I tried it with latest news-nuclear war but that derailed....

I do think war, economy, climate all have pandemic links-in scenario's, pandemic breakfast I do mention them-but focus on the disease part...

Maybe also "is this a prepper-site", with special info on -once "Avian Flu Talk" ? 

There is a lot of war, crises going on...but there should be some balance... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 27 2022 at 2:36pm

DJ, thanks!  As I'm a classically trained epidemiologist, I tend to hew closely to established science and facts, not political will. 

Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  The mRNA vaccines have long been studied for cancer treatment, and their application for fighting COVID-19 was nothing less than brilliant.  This provides a potent new tool to fight many established (HIV-AIDS) and emerging diseases quickly and safely. 

We almost had eradicated many infectious diseases that have long plagued us.  However, thanks to false information on the Internet and irrational fears, we now see old nemeses like polio, measles and other re-emerging.  Those who believe they are protecting their children by withholding vaccines are very sadly mistaken. 

https://www.unicef.org/stories/measles-cases-spiking-globally

All for now, I'm glad to be in touch with old friends.  I highly recommend obtaining the most current COVID-19 booster at your earliest convenience.  People are still dying from COVID-19.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 3:25am

I agree!! With Roni. About this forum

I do not agree about the boosters especially if you have natural immunity. I have 3 friends who recently got the new booster and all 3 got myocarditis

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 12:32pm

I agree with Roni and Usk too. There is too much posting about the Russian conflict in the wrong threads. I've just moved 2 posts by ksc that were in this thread. I suggest we limit the war talk to Dutch Josh's thread about Non Pandemic Items.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 05 2022 at 10:06pm

Usk, you mentioned [url]https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-patients-and-visitors/patient-information/conditions-treated-a-to-z/myocarditis[/url] or https://www.pennmedicine.org/for-patients-and-visitors/patient-information/conditions-treated-a-to-z/myocarditis in 3 boostered friends...Was that an official (and booster linked) diagnosis ? 

On more focus on pandemics - this once was "Avian Flu Talk" - I stick to my plan of putting most non-pandemic news in the section non-pandemic news...however in my (as good as) daily "pandemic breakfast" I could refer to "latest news"...

Again-from a history point of view-the Spanish Flu can NOT be understood without links to World War One...most major pandemics did have "war-links"...but I will limit the war-part...

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 06 2022 at 3:52am

Yes. They spent time in the hospital and er docs said they had seem more of this since the newest booster has been released

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2022 at 6:35am

https://quoththeraven.substack.com/p/twitter-censors-surgeon-general-after

Link to cdc cautions use of boosters for men 18 to 39 increased risk of sudden death linked to it

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2022 at 7:57am

In reaction to the Florida CoViD-vaccine "study" [url]https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1578894014132408320[/url] or https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1578894014132408320 did see incorrect basis for the study. 

Yet, despite huge analytic errors and limitations, this is now being put forward as evidence that mRNA vaccines put people at risk of cardiac death, when the paper doesn't show this. And so many studies show benefits far outweigh risks.

-

I do want to say very clearly- I do think vaccine injury occurs, and I think it is important to understand, study, and treat. But this piece isn't about vaccine injury- it's just pseudoscience. The benefits of vaccines at population level far exceed the risks.

DJ...still I think vaccines only can have use in combination with a much wider strategy. For that matter I -non expert- think the present vaccine strategy;

-did save millions of lives in the short term

-contributed to all kinds of immunity evasive variants in the longer term...

Another point could be if we could have stopped the pandemic without vaccines...Early action could have stopped the spread. Why air-traffic went on during the Wuhan 2020 lockdown I simply fail to understand...Why we did offer free airtravel to all kinds of varinats-knowing vaccines at best limit disease NOT stop infection & spread- is beyond me...

We may be close to the point [url]https://www.thailandmedical.news/articles/news[/url] or https://www.thailandmedical.news/articles/news in fact has been warning for-running out of tools to stop variants infecting people over and over again...In my non-expert idea the only way to stop this pandemic now would be "draconian"...long term lockdown, almost zero travel...sort of "freeze"...Maybe "politics" is working in that direction but "naming it differently" ? (war...)

Most vaccines used worldwide-by the way-were NOT mRNA -vaccines but most likely from India, China, Russia..."old-style"...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2022 at 2:09pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:


Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  

As opposed to coercive vaccination policies being dominated by nazis. You get to own your comments relating to the vaxx from here till hell freezes over. Because I sure as hell am not forgetting them or what your kind tried to pull. Unsuccessfully I might add. I have your related comments captured on screen shots, if you'd like to be reminded I can post them. Camps ring a bell????????

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 5:40am

We were all being expected to follow some grand experiment. Lucky for some you stood up for your body your choice and were vilified for it.  Those of you in here and the rest of humanity that stood up for your right to choose I salute you and I am very proud of you

Some of like me had to get vaccinated or loss their job. I stll got COVID and survived 4 times!  
i find myself very sad for humanity. We walked this crisis and did not act with the compassion and grace we should and that is on each of us

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 12:43pm

Originally posted by Usk Usk wrote:

We were all being expected to follow some grand experiment. Lucky for some you stood up for your body your choice and were vilified for it.  Those of you in here and the rest of humanity that stood up for your right to choose I salute you and I am very proud of you

Some of like me had to get vaccinated or loss their job. I stll got COVID and survived 4 times!  
i find myself very sad for humanity. We walked this crisis and did not act with the compassion and grace we should and that is on each of us

Well said. An old friend of mine was forced to have the jabs or she would have lost her teaching job, and she was severely vaccine injured by them and after the 2nd one was unable to work for 8 months. She's facing a long and terrifying journey back to health and she's so upset by it, as are her family. It's so sad.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 7:43pm

I am so sorry for your friend. I have been fortunate to have no lasting effects now. I did have an enlarged spleen for 6 months since Omicron and still have loss of smell. I will have your friend in my prayers. I hope she gets the care and support medically that I have fortunate to get where I live

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2022 at 9:06pm

DJ, 

Maybe a NL/European perspective on where this discussion is going;

three points; labor laws, vaccines, social media;

1-Labor laws;

In NL-most of western Europe an employer has not even the right to ask if you did get vaccinated...There are some high-risk jobs-often with international tules- like pilots, off shore, oil rigs, international shipping where there are other rules...We had some discussions on mandatory vaccines in nursing homes, childcare (there there were two discussions; one employees-workers to be vaccinated...or could one demand children did have basic vaccinations...).

What I understand is that in a.o. the US big companies, employers are allowed to tell you to get vaccinated...simply unthinkable in most of Europe...

2.Vaccines ;

We have vaccination programs for young children, tax funded...offered at consultation centers. Health insurance may cover costs for some travel-related vaccinations...I believe the vaccination level for new borns, young children see 90-95% of the parents getting their children vaccinated...Some religious groups, limited anti-vax groups do not go for (all) of the vaccines...

The basic idea however is "vaccines sell themselves"...They have to proof they do their job...we did have polio in the past...as good as gone due to vaccines...other diseases are very limited...

CoViD vaccines levels in NL is 80-85% of all 12+ of the population did make the choice to get at least two vaccines...[url]https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/vaccinaties[/url] or https://coronadashboard.government.nl/landelijk/vaccinaties 

3. Social media ;

We did see a lot of protests against mandatory vaccinations...however both politics and trade unions both were/are against mandatory vaccinations in general...So that discussion is an imported discussion...reflecting basiccally a US conflict...Some US companies in NL wanted their employees to get vaccinated...A company may share their ideas on anything...but that is it...

"Social"media also did see lots of non-sense on chip implants, Bill Gates etc...most of that non-sense also imported from the US...(We even have some "gangster culture" now imported that way...)...So "social media" was pushing protests against plans that did not exist...

DJ-It is YOUR body-you have a right of privacy on medical issues....An employer can (via the CAO, central contract on labor) give you time under working hours for medical reasons...could be dentist or getting vaccinated...One of the reasons we have had limited labor-conflicts is both employers and trade unions can agree on a lot of issues...Conflicts is not in the interest of anyone...

This was a "US dominated/based" forum...a lot of the conflicts that did do severe damage are US (made) conflicts...I believe in sharing info...getting informed...I "hate" conflict... 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 18 2022 at 11:32pm

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:


Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  

As opposed to coercive vaccination policies being dominated by nazis. You get to own your comments relating to the vaxx from here till hell freezes over. Because I sure as hell am not forgetting them or what your kind tried to pull. Unsuccessfully I might add. I have your related comments captured on screen shots, if you'd like to be reminded I can post them. Camps ring a bell????????

Post away.  

As the only one on this site with an advanced degree in Epidemiology, I stand by my comments.  Kiwimum, you longed for the Chinese Sinovax vaccine (which has largely been proven ineffective, hence the ongoing COVID lockdowns in China).   DJ, as always, you amaze me, keep it up. 

AI, who the hell are you?  "My kind" are classically trained viral epidemiologists.  Thanks to our work, major scourges including smallpox have been eliminated.  Polio and measles, which could have been eradicated, are resurgent thanks to the likes of you and your denialist/ignorant ilk. 

Tired of COVID?  Get ready, new variants are gearing up.   People are still dying from COVID, and just because we are tired of the pandemic, the viruses don't care what we think.  We are fresh meat to them, nothing else. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-omicron-covid-19-subvariants-on-the-rise-in-u-s-cdc-says-11665761579

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2022 at 1:03pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Kiwimum, you longed for the Chinese Sinovax vaccine (which has largely been proven ineffective, hence the ongoing COVID lockdowns in China).   

Well I was open to the idea of it but I wouldn't say I longed for it. As it turned out, after extensive research, I decided not to have any of the offered vaccines. I had Covid, as did all my vaccinated and unvaccinated friends, and I was ill with it, I recovered and have been fine ever since. In fact my whole family had it and we all recovered. But then we are lucky in that we are fit and healthy and have no underlying medical conditions. 

I'm not interested in the argument about be pro or anti Covid vaccine as it's all water under the bridge. I am interested to see that Pfizer have recently admitted under oath and on camera that the claims that their vaccine would stop transmission and infection were untrue. They had no proof to back up their claims. 

Every single person I know who was vaccinated have had Covid, to greater or lesser degrees, and I unfortunately know more and more people who are vaccine injured and are finally speaking out about it.

I guess at the end of the day, whether or not to have any of the Covid vaccines is a wholly personal choice, It really does not make any difference to anyone else so it's down to the individual.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 19 2022 at 11:14pm

CRS, DrPH, with all respect on Sinovac [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac[/url] or https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CoronaVac ;

CoronaVac, also known as the Sinovac COVID-19 vaccine,[3] is a whole inactivated virus COVID-19 vaccine developed by the Chinese company Sinovac Biotech.[4][5] It was Phase III clinical trialled in Brazil,[6] Chile,[7] Indonesia,[8] the Philippines,[9] and Turkey[10] and relies on traditional technology similar to other inactivated-virus COVID-19 vaccines, such as the Sinopharm BIBP vaccine, another Chinese vaccine, and Covaxin, an Indian vaccine.[11] CoronaVac does not need to be frozen and both the final product and the raw material for formulating CoronaVac can be transported refrigerated at 2–8 °C (36–46 °F), temperatures at which flu vaccines are kept.[12]

A real-world study of tens of millions of Chileans who received CoronaVac found it 66% effective against symptomatic COVID-19, 88% against hospitalization, 90% against ICU admissions, and 86% against deaths.[13] In Brazil, after 75% of the population in Serrana, São Paulo, received CoronaVac, preliminary results show deaths fell by 95%, hospitalizations by 86%, and symptomatic cases by 80%.[14][15] In Indonesia, real world data from 128,290 healthcare workers showed 94% protection against symptomatic infection by the vaccine, beating results in clinical trials.[16]

Phase III results from Turkey published in The Lancet showed an efficacy of 84% based on 10,218 participants in the trials.[17][18] Phase III results from Brazil previously showed 50.7% efficacy at preventing symptomatic infections and 83.7% effective in preventing mild cases needing treatment. Efficacy against symptomatic infections increased to 62.3% with an interval of 21 days or more between the doses.[19]

CoronaVac is being used in vaccination campaigns in various countries in Asia,[20][21][22] South America,[23][24][25] Central America,[26][27][28] and Eastern Europe.[29][30][31] By April 2021, Sinovac had a production capacity of 2 billion doses a year.[32] It is currently being manufactured at several facilities in China,[32] with planned overseas manufacture in Brazil in September 2021[33] and eventually in Egypt[34] and Hungary.[35]

On 1 June 2021, the World Health Organization (WHO) validated the vaccine for emergency use.[36][37] Sinovac has signed purchase agreements for 380 million doses from COVAX.[38] As of July 2021, CoronaVac was the most widely used COVID-19 vaccine in the world, with 943 million doses delivered.[39]

As of 14 October 2021, CoronaVac is the COVID-19 vaccine with most doses administered worldwide.[40]

A recent study jointly conducted by the LKS Faculty of Medicine, The University of Hong Kong (HKUMed) and the Faculty of Medicine, The Chinese University of Hong Kong (CU Medicine) showed that a third dose of Comirnaty vaccine given to those who received two doses of either Comirnaty or CoronaVac provides protective levels of measured antibodies against the Omicron variant of SARS-CoV-2. Three doses of CoronaVac however did not provide adequate levels of protective antibodies by the same measure,[41] in direct contradiction to claims made by the vaccine manufacturer.[42][43]

DJ, The reason China is using lockdowns is the Zero-CoViD policy...the reason why "the west" has problems with that is profits...economy first...

In my view having only two vaccines -almost a monopoly- Pfizer/BioNTech and Moderna (both mRNA) in most of the west (Sputnik-V did ask the EMA for access to the EU but never got an answer...) may not be "the smartest move"...AstraZeneca being sidelined by "bad press"...

Vaccinations were not only used to limit disease on an individual level but also vaccines were believed to "make living with the virus" possible...So on the big picture-yes vaccines did reduce CoViD deaths but fail to make "living with the virus possible"...New variants simply "select" ways around vaccine/infection caused immunity...

We have a long way to go still...(nasal vaccines look promissing...but first stories on them are two years old by now ???)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 21 2022 at 11:36pm

Thanks, DJ, good post! 

Coronaviruses have never been controlled with a whole virus vaccine.  If it were possible, we would have eliminated the common cold decades ago. 

China lacked the vaccine knowledge & resources of the West.   mRNA vaccines were based upon long studied mRNA technology used in cancer research, it was an easy leap to adapt this proven platform to a simple RNA vaccine like SARS-CoV2.  

I thought that the AstraZeneca vaccine was a dangerous gamble:

"The Oxford–AstraZeneca COVID‑19 vaccine, sold under the brand names Covishield[28] and Vaxzevria[1][29] among others, is a viral vector vaccine for prevention of COVID-19. Developed in the United Kingdom by Oxford University and British-Swedish company AstraZeneca,[30][31][32] using as a vector the modified chimpanzee adenovirus ChAdOx1.[33] "

Simian viruses are notoriously dangerous in humans, that is how HIV AIDS started.  The risk of contamination by using this vector was much too high in my opinion. 

Of all the vaccines, the Johnson & Johnson vaccine made a great deal of sense to me.  A first dose of J&J with subsequent mRNA boosters would likely give the most robust immune response, as I believe J&J gave superior T-cell response, unlike mRNA vaccines which mostly elicited the antibody immune response.  

KiwiMum, I'm pleased that you have survived your exposure to SARS-CoV2.  Sadly, it is becoming apparent that the damage from infection can be very long-lasting and affects many different organ systems, including vascular, pulmonary and neurological. 

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/covid-19-infections-increase-risk-of-long-term-brain-problems/

Remember, this was a animal pathogen that spilled over into human hosts.  We are lucky it wasn't as lethal as 2003 SARS coronavirus, although COVID seemed to transmit more readily. 

We aren't through with this yet.  We may be tired of the virus, but it isn't tired of us. 

CRS, DrPH
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2022 at 1:06am

CRS, DrPH thanks for your reaction...

The way I see it-as a non-expert-we are getting lost in a labyrinth of many crises...pandemic-related to climate change, meat production is just one (cluster) of it...The political, economic chaos is another aspect...You do not solve problems by creating money and giving that to "experts" claiming to solve the problem (with politics holding shares in the expert-companies...otherwise funded by "donations"...). 

-Vaccines-in this phase-only may be part of the way out...Variants are developing, mutating high speed- to evade immunity...Nasal vaccines may offer perspectives...but there will be a reason why we do not have larger scale use of nasal vaccines...

-In the short term another way out means limiting transport/spread of variants...False claims of "economy/profit' and "freedom" (without responsibility...) for now block that way out...

-We need an international plan, effort to get out of these crises...not more wars...

Long term solutions for public health demand rethinking the way "we" live...Most of us do not fly that often...a lot of people would be in better shape if they did use their car less...airpolution is a major problem. Stop eating meat may be "radical" for now but if we want to limit risks of animal diseases causing pandemics we have to reduce exposure...

"Planned parenthood" means family-planning...If people want to have children they have a responsibility for education, safety...Global population reduction via better family planning is welcome...Better education for women means less babies....

At the moment "we" are not even starting to get a grip on this pandemic and the underlying crises...Information, communication is the basic tool for change...

Just some ideas on a saturday morning....

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 22 2022 at 1:20pm

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

KiwiMum, I'm pleased that you have survived your exposure to SARS-CoV2.  Sadly, it is becoming apparent that the damage from infection can be very long-lasting and affects many different organ systems, including vascular, pulmonary and neurological. 

https://medicine.wustl.edu/news/covid-19-infections-increase-risk-of-long-term-brain-problems/

Remember, this was a animal pathogen that spilled over into human hosts.  We are lucky it wasn't as lethal as 2003 SARS coronavirus, although COVID seemed to transmit more readily. 

We aren't through with this yet.  We may be tired of the virus, but it isn't tired of us. 

Yes Covid does appear to have long term effects on people, regardless whether they had the vaccine or not. One of my cousins who is immuno-compromised and has had 4 full strength vaccine doses and 2 boosters, and although she has been shielding since the start of Covid, has recently caught it. The vaccines did nothing to protect her. She was then prescribed Paxlovid and has taken a course of that, and all that did was suppress some of the worse symptoms but she's a long way from being better.

With hindsight, I'm glad we chose not to have the vaccines, and we've had no long term effects from having the virus. Covid took a long time to recover fully from. But as I said, we're all fit and healthy in our family and maybe if we weren't then we'd have made different choices.

And I agree with you Chuck, I don't think Covid has finished with the human race yet!

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 12:51am

I chose to get 2 covid vaccines and 1 booster, when they first became available. We had a co-worker die after spending 4 months in the hospital and then a rehab, she suddenly died. Our jobs eventually required us to get the vaccine or be fired, I'm glad I already had it. I did get this new variant over the summer and was started on meds within 2 days of getting sick, only had a couple of real bad days. But 3 months later I am still so tired all the time and still have a nagging cough. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 9:04am

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

Originally posted by CRS, DrPH CRS, DrPH wrote:


Sadly, vaccination policy is being dominated by many "skeptics," who are fed erroneous information by individuals with ulterior motives (usually financial).  

As opposed to coercive vaccination policies being dominated by nazis. You get to own your comments relating to the vaxx from here till hell freezes over. Because I sure as hell am not forgetting them or what your kind tried to pull. Unsuccessfully I might add. I have your related comments captured on screen shots, if you'd like to be reminded I can post them. Camps ring a bell????????

Post away.  

As the only one on this site with an advanced degree in Epidemiology, I stand by my comments.  Kiwimum, you longed for the Chinese Sinovax vaccine (which has largely been proven ineffective, hence the ongoing COVID lockdowns in China).   DJ, as always, you amaze me, keep it up. 

AI, who the hell are you?  "My kind" are classically trained viral epidemiologists.  Thanks to our work, major scourges including smallpox have been eliminated.  Polio and measles, which could have been eradicated, are resurgent thanks to the likes of you and your denialist/ignorant ilk. 

Tired of COVID?  Get ready, new variants are gearing up.   People are still dying from COVID, and just because we are tired of the pandemic, the viruses don't care what we think.  We are fresh meat to them, nothing else. 

https://www.wsj.com/articles/new-omicron-covid-19-subvariants-on-the-rise-in-u-s-cdc-says-11665761579

Well classically trained viral epidemiologist go ahead and answer the question relating to masks that you seem to want to forget and have never answered. And lets follow the science shall we. 

As for what your kind is that's the extremest kind. Trying to hide in the herd of epidemiologist isn't working as I have not seen one single professional call for there being camps for the unvaxxed. That distinction belongs to you and you alone as Mr classically trained viral epidemiologist extremest.  

And yes your comments about wanting to stick the unvaxxed into camps were based on what science? Was there science involved in that statement of yours given that the vaxxed can, do and did and continue to readily transmit covid, which at the time of your statement there was science proving just that, which was available. Yours was a comment spewed out based more on political rhetoric being made at that time by the blunder in chief Bidum that was NOT based on science. History shows Hitler was surrounded by just such scientist who readily spewed whatever propaganda the party demanded of them and did so willingly. Extremest are like that though. You are no different.

As for masks I did see you calling them "useless" and saying "calm down no mask will save you".  And given that you'r an expert I expect that you based that response on your knowledge of all the peer reviewed large scale mask studies (surgical masks) prior to covid about the virtually negligible effect they had on stopping the flu in study after study. And no you didn't give the "saving them for health care workers" excuse at the time you stated all that, that came later.  Now the question I have for the expert such as yourself, is how is it that simple cloth masks are now proclaimed by you to stop the spread of covid yet they couldn't help stop a less transmissible virus like the flu?  And lets not forget that the flu and covid are both spread via droplet transmission so the "well the masks are catching coughs and sneezes" applied to the flu studies as well. It's a very simple question.

And now we get to your leper colony for those not vaxxed comment. I assume you must also be thinking there would be a separate but equal leper colony for those who are vaxxed. I mean you are the expert and you are cognizant by now I hope of the fact the vaxx doesn't stop transmission of covid by those vaxxed correct? ???And Omnicron seems to not care in the least about being spread by the triple vaxxed, and is in fact seems quite adept at being spread by the vaxxed. You are going to need a really really big vaxxed leper colony.

And the leper colony comment and  your prior comments about wanting to use tanks on protesters as well as a few others you have made leads me to believe you are an extremist. Camps for the non vaxxed  LOL how very VAXXNAZI of you, maybe you can command a panzer tank at one. It's a good thing you are not in a position to actually effect any policy, or well do anything really for that matter actually, but post your extremist views. 


"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 10:10am

Originally posted by Penham Penham wrote:

I chose to get 2 covid vaccines and 1 booster, when they first became available. We had a co-worker die after spending 4 months in the hospital and then a rehab, she suddenly died. Our jobs eventually required us to get the vaccine or be fired, I'm glad I already had it. I did get this new variant over the summer and was started on meds within 2 days of getting sick, only had a couple of real bad days. But 3 months later I am still so tired all the time and still have a nagging cough. 

I'm sorry to hear that Penham. I hope you recover fully soon. Frustratingly  I think it just takes time. 

When covid came through our house, we were properly ill. I was sick for about 8 days, my hubby about the same, but the children only about 3 days each. Mine then turned into a chronic ear and throat infection for another 4 or 5 days, but all of us felt completely exhausted for a couple of weeks afterwards and so ended up having about 3 weeks off work. My hubby and I both felt better for a few days, then suddenly run over by a bus again, but each return was less severe than the last. We were talking about it the other night and reckon it took us a full 3 months to get over the tiredness, and also to stop looking exhausted. 

Covid certainly seems to be long lasting and utterly debilitating. Quite a few people I know have also had that returning wave of exhaustion in the weeks after it. My cough lasted about 3 or 4 weeks.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Penham Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2022 at 5:11pm

Yes, it's been about 3 months now.  I'm tired of being tired all the time. If I don't have to work I can sleep for 12 hours.....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 25 2022 at 4:44am

Those that still have long Covid symptoms may i suggest doubling vit D and adding B12 shots or under tongue dissolving tabs. That regiment worked for me

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