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Can hurricanes destroy the US ?

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: September 03 2019 at 5:51am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 28 2019 at 8:52am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 27 2019 at 5:10am
Chump is an intellectual free Zone.....



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 26 2019 at 3:18am
I think Trump's latest idea will speed up hurricanes destroying the US. Just nuke them!


Quote Mr Trump asked why the US couldn't drop a bomb into the eye of the storm to stop it from making landfall, news site Axios said.

The NOAA says that using nuclear weapons on a hurricane "might not even alter the storm" and the "radioactive fallout would fairly quickly move with the tradewinds to affect land areas".

The difficulty with using explosives to change hurricanes, it says, is the amount of energy needed.

The heat release of a hurricane is equivalent to a 10-megaton nuclear bomb exploding every 20 minutes.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-49471093

Wild ideas seem to becoming more and more dangerous.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 01 2019 at 12:49pm
https://www.fairewinds.org/demystify/nuclear-emergency-planning-amp-hurricane-season

In 1992, 145 MPH Hurricane Andrew directly hit the Turkey Point Nuclear Power Plant, just south of Miami, Florida.

Here is what the Union of Concerned Scientist had to say about the damage:

“The hurricane knocked out all offsite power for the plant for more than five days, caused the total loss of the plant’s communication systems, blocked the access road to the site with debris, and damaged the fire protection and security systems as well as the warehouse facilities. …. The telephone systems at Turkey Point did not function because the hurricane damaged the onsite antennas and the offsite repeating stations. Except for one hand-held radio, the plant’s radio systems did not function during and immediately following the storm. Overall, all offsite communications were lost for about four hours during the storm, and reliable communications were not restored for about 24 hours following the storm. The fire protection system at the plant was disabled when winds knocked a high tower tank onto a 500,000 gallon tank containing water for the fire protection system.”

The only source of power to the plant were the diesel generators, but they had been placed near a smoke stack. That smoke stack was part of an oil powered plant, and it had developed cracks and was in danger of falling on the emergency diesel generators for the atomic powered reactor!

It was a very close call!

DJ-https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5 and https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Erick-Bring-Heavy-Rains-High-Surf-Hawaii-Watching-96L-Atlantic?cm_ven=cat6-widget Another storm is on its way.

https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/
Invest 96L moving towards Florida, Invest 94W moving towards south of Japan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2019 at 10:57pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hM7jpwx_k-k Tropical Tidbit trying to get a clear view of "Barry". Good info on an unpredictable bunch of clouds above the Florida pan-handle-moving into the Gulf-than west-than breaking up by southward high winds, northward low-layer winds ?

Or strong enough to survive and move towards Texas, even getting stronger over the Gulf ?

DJ-Maybe the news is the unpredictability of "Barry". It can make landfall in a few days as a Tropical Storm, but it could also become a "monster-storm" in a few days. https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/92L-Moving-Gulf-Mexico-May-Develop-Tropical-Depression

https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2019 at 2:44am
I live over a 100 km/60miles from the (North)sea. Still when-it is a matter of time-a major hurricane ends up this way there is a major problem.

The amount of rain, salt water moving up the rivers, severe flooding, will effect infrastructure-and with that-logistics.

"Barry" may be forming but there are still several scenario's on how it will develop. https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/, https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/, https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Invest-92L-Likely-be-Tropical-Storm-Gulf-Mexico-Saturday?cm_ven=cat6-widget

DJ-The US should do more to deal with extreme weather, earthquakes etc. and less with starting wars around the globe. Wrong choices are destroying the US even more than hurricanes can do !
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 09 2019 at 1:47am
I live about 5kms from the beach....

Time to move......lol
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2019 at 7:33pm
^rising sea levels will ensure that coastal areas in Florida, New York, Texas etc. will be destroyed by hurricanes, sooner or later.

I live at 3,000 feet above sea level in southern Arizona USA, so sea level rise won't bother me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 08 2019 at 4:16am
DJ-Lots of uncertainty https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5 there may-very likely-form "a named storm" west of Florida. https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Heavy-Rains-and-Possible-Tropical-Storm-Northeast-Gulf-Mexico-Late-Week?cm_ven=cat6-widget

How it wil develop is a big question. From https://www.ventusky.com/?p=25.8;-84.4;4&l=wind-10m&t=20190715/1200 to http://www.myfoxhurricane.com/ try to get a clear picture.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DV6dhLU1JSA mentions several scenario's-from a depression moving into the Gulf and then back north to a storm moving along the US east coast towards New York.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=youZZWyWsfA in2thinair.

On top of the flooding etc. in the US more flooding will mean more damage. (The duration of flooding may become another factor).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2019 at 11:01pm
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/2019-Atlantic-Hurricane-Season-Begins-91L-Gulf-Mexico-Threat-Develop?cm_ven=cat6-widget and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6zwPOwDshU

Looking at https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gtwo.php?basin=atlc&fdays=5 "91L" will effect Texas-even when it does not become a Tropical Depression
"Barry".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_Atlantic_hurricane_season
https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/blog/2019/06/01/watching-a-tropical-disturbance-in-the-southern-gulf-of-mexico/#comments

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WfloqgqPBjU BPEarthwatch
https://blog.myfoxhurricane.com/2019/06/02/barry-a-possibility-in-the-bay-of-campeche-heavy-rain-threat-for-eastern-mexico/

(DJ-With extreme flooding already widespread in the US a hurricane-like-weathersystem may find energy in warm water on land to stay active longer.
A possible "Barry" scenario could push this system into the Mississippi river system or follow the US Gulf coast. When I look at https://www.ventusky.com/ only more rain on its way to Texas-but "history" tells us a hurricane can get to cat5 in 24/48 hrs. There is a lot of very warm water in the western Gulf-so a lot of energy wich can get into a major hurricane very fast.)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 24 2018 at 9:59pm
DJ;

Robert Scribler https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R6iU20YZFME
Willa slammed into the coast of Mexico as a category 3 hurricane yesterday producing widespread impacts. The remnants of the storm are now moving over Northeast Mexico -- funneling heavy rains into an already severe weather pattern across Texas. Over the next few days, this area of stormy weather is expected to track east -- potentially becoming a Nor'easter by the weekend.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PHk1jX8YpG8
Yutu is presently raking the northern Marianas islands with winds gusting to near 220 mph. This storm is of a class comparable to the most powerful cyclones ever observed on the face of the Earth. It goes without saying that the small islands in Yutu's path will see devastating impacts.


MrMBB333; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjmTX50tq5U and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Walaka#Preparations_and_impact:
A powerful storm surge accompanied the hurricane as it traversed the French Frigate Shoals. The small, low-lying East Island suffered a direct hit and was completely destroyed, with sediment scattered across coral reefs to the north.

DJ-There was/is a discussion on category 6 hurricanes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffir%E2%80%93Simpson_scale and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffir%E2%80%93Simpson_scale#%22Category_6%22.
With storms ever getting stronger for science reasons new scales may be usefull. Both extreme events (wind, rain, surge) as duration (drought, several days of rain) can bring severe damage. They are not always included in a "scale".
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 23 2018 at 1:56am
https://www.wunderground.com/news/storms/hurricane/news/2018-10-22-hurricane-willa-pacific-ocean-mexico-landfall and https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/?epac

MrMBB333 is comparing https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Patricia#United_States with "Willa" on its way to NW Mexico.

DJ-Both "Vicente" and "Willa" will do a lot of damage in western Mexico. Stronger storms are one of many signs of (rapid) climate change. This climate crisis is not caused by the poor but they are expected to bear the suffering. https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-22/president-trump-declares-national-emergency-mexico-loses-control-migrant-army

"The poor" have every reason to bring the bill to those who did cause the problems. Oil companies, military-industrial-complex, will have to pay for the damage they are doing.

Climate fefugees are another climate-change related problem going to explode (both for the US and EU).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2018 at 10:06pm
Hurricane Michael: "A Reuters tally of official reports says at least 27 are now confirmed dead - including 17 in Florida. Another death was also confirmed by officials in Georgia, three in North Carolina and six in Virginia."

I do hope that the insurance companies lead the discussion of building standards (and how much/little they will pay if houses are not up to standard....
"The area where the storm hit worst, in Florida's Panhandle region, do not have building code standards as strict as in other areas of the state.

Swathes of houses were completely obliterated in Mexico Beach - an area described as "ground zero" for the storm's heavy winds and storm surges."

All quotes from https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-45893486
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 17 2018 at 12:48am
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/database/index.php?pageid=event_desc&edis_id=FF-20181017-65069-USA DJ-Most likely extreme rain in Alaska might be related to a Pacific hurricane moving north.

With the jetstream being this disrupted it is a matter of time before remnants of hurricanes manage to get to the Arctic and cross it.....

On the Bussines Insider story; hurricane is a name for a sort of storm (in a certain area). It would be better to look at all extreme weather events.
http://www.severe-weather.eu/mcd/further-torrential-rainfall-across-western-mediterranean-particularly-parts-of-spain/
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2018 at 10:19pm
Will this classic soon stop being true?

ln Hertford, Hereford and Hampshire hurricanes hardly ever happen

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xmADMB2utAo
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 16 2018 at 3:06pm
Interesting article about hurricanes and Europe!

https://www.businessinsider.com/why-hurricanes-never-hit-europe-2018-10
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 10:03pm
DJ; The Arctic is extremely warm pushing cold air-via the jetstream to the US and central Siberia. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIdu33vKME4 (Robert Scribler)

"Leslie" did bring a lot of damage to Portugal, Spain, France. https://www.wunderground.com/news/news/news/2018-10-15-southwestern-france-floods-trebes and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Leslie_(2018)#Madeira

"Michael"https://www.theweathernetwork.com/news/articles/iberian-peninsula-battered-by-remnants-hurricane-leslie-hurricane-michael-september-2018/115091

DJ-As should be expected Europe is not safe for hurricanes any longer due to (rapid) climate change.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/94L-Headed-Towards-Belize-Tara-Drenching-Mexico-Luban-Floods-Yemen
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 9:58pm
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:


We never used to have them. The first recorded on our south coast was during my childhood.

We are getting windier every year. Two years ago we put up a polytunnel. "That will stand a force nine!" we commented smugly, as we finished shoring it up, burying its edges and adding anchors. It did.

Then we had our first force 10 since arriving here. It even bent the steel hoops flat!

Isn't it amazing how hard it is to listen to your own advice?


Indeed!! I just read about your Storm Callum, I hope you and yours fared well! I used to live in the Southwest of England (Exeter), and these extreme weather events (massive winter snowfalls, storms, floods) make me sad!

https://edition.cnn.com/2018/10/12/europe/storm-callum-uk-ireland-intl/index.html
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 15 2018 at 2:24am

We never used to have them. The first recorded on our south coast was during my childhood.

We are getting windier every year. Two years ago we put up a polytunnel. "That will stand a force nine!" we commented smugly, as we finished shoring it up, burying its edges and adding anchors. It did.

Then we had our first force 10 since arriving here. It even bent the steel hoops flat!

Isn't it amazing how hard it is to listen to your own advice?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 8:42pm
Originally posted by Technophobe Technophobe wrote:

I can't be specific regarding atmospheric layers, but generally speaking, currents of anything (gasses, liquids or even plasma) form as the laws of physics try to equalise divergent temperatures. The hotter the fluid, or the greater the thermal incline, the stronger and faster the currents.

That is why stronger hurricanes are a given in global warming.

I've been saying this about global warming for several decades, but the wind has barely started rising yet! Hold on to your hats (metephorically and actually) it is going to be a wild ride!


Indeed it will, Techno!

I saw that Portugal was assailed by Hurricane Leslie, I didn't know that your side of the pond was blessed with these things!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 14 2018 at 2:09am
I can't be specific regarding atmospheric layers, but generally speaking, currents of anything (gasses, liquids or even plasma) form as the laws of physics try to equalise divergent temperatures. The hotter the fluid, or the greater the thermal incline, the stronger and faster the currents.

That is why stronger hurricanes are a given in global warming.

I've been saying this about global warming for several decades, but the wind has barely started rising yet! Hold on to your hats (metephorically and actually) it is going to be a wild ride!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 10:30pm
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-13/hurricane-cost-may-skyrocket-billions-stealth-fighter-jets-unaccounted-tyndall-afb:

According to the New York Times, Tyndall is home to 55 stealth fighters, "which cost a dizzying $339 million each." Before Michael hit, the Air Force evacuated at least 33 of the planes to Wright-Patterson Air Force Base in Ohio, however they would not comment on the status of the remaining 22 fighters.
-
F-22s are notoriously finicky and, as the Times puts it "not always flight-worthy." The Air Force reported earlier this year that just 49% of F-22s were mission ready at any given time - the lowest rate of any fighter in the Air Force. The total value of the unaccounted-for fighters is arouind $7.5 billion.

The eye of Hurricane Michael traveled directly over Tyndall, peeling back stormproof roofs like tin cans and flipping over an F-15 fighter jet display at the base entrance.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 8:46pm
I realy have to study this subject, does a growing temperature difference between layers in the atmosphere create stronger hurricanes (and UV-C getting to the surface-or is that unrelated ? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermosphere 80km+, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ozone_layer 30km+)

Interesting question on wich I do not have an answer yet...

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/database/index.php?pageid=event_desc&edis_id=TC-20181014-65024-USA

Robert Scribler with some good info on the (very warm +5c/+8F) Arctic and damages of "Michael" (stirred up Ocean, forrests down=effecting CO2sinks)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uvyCSc0HEpA, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gl4nyrDOePo

By the way, "Leslie" making landfall in Portugal, moving over Spain towards France this sunday http://www.severe-weather.eu/outlooks-day1/outlook-day-1-2-valid-13-14-10-2018/ and "Michael" on its way to Europe http://www.severe-weather.eu/tropical-weather/remnants-of-ex-hurricane-michael-intensifying-in-the-atlantic-extra-tropical-storm-on-the-way-towards-the-bay-of-biscay-tomorrow-oct-14th/
http://www.estofex.org/:A level 3 was issued for parts of Portugal surrounded by a level 2 covering also parts of Spain mainly for severe to damaging wind gusts and to a lesser extent for (strong) tornados and excessive precipitation.

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Rain-Spain-Falls-Mainly-Froma-Hurricane

DJ-Europe is not ready to deal with hurricanes at all. It is very likely there will be a fast increase of hurricanes getting to Europe (also other storms getting much stronger).
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 9:10am
With all the wierd effects of global warming, I would not be at all surprised to find that the thermophile had cooled. Despite its high temperature and vast size however, the thermophile would be unlikely to produce much effect at Earth's surface as its molecules are so far appart. It is almost vaccuum.

However if the thermophile has cooled, that is evidence that the warming of the Earth's surface is definitely NOT solar in origin. The temperature of the thermophile layer is almose entirely solar-generated. So if it is cooling whilst the rest of the earth is warming, then something here is more than compensating for reduced solar warming.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 13 2018 at 12:54am
I read a story a while back about the thermosphere now being the coldest it has ever been recorded at (only been measuring it since the space age).   I have a sneaky feeling this is what is allowing the hurricanes to blow up like they have the last couple years.   People think it is heat that drives hurricanes. When in reality it is temperature differential that powers weather.   I have no idea if a cold thermosphere supports global warming or not.


Side note: Google and Youtube have been really pissing me off lately.   It is very obvious they have been modifying their algorithms to make sure we all get our news from "approved" sources.   I only mention it because I for the life of me couldn't find the article to back up what I said in the first paragraph.   I know I read it and not even that long ago but google has become useless at helping me find it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2018 at 11:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2018 at 2:30am
https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-11/i-have-no-words-aerial-footage-shows-trail-devastation-left-hurricane-michael,

http://www.thebigwobble.org/2018/10/monster-hurricane-michael-fourth.html,

https://www.wunderground.com/news.

DJ-"Michael" coincided with a "sharp fall" at the stock-exchanges. Most likely there is only a limited relationship between the two events although it may be hard to look into investors minds.

Looking at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017_Atlantic_hurricane_season#Season_effects;
Harvey 125 billion, Maria 92 billion, Irma 65 billion US$ in damages.
this year https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Atlantic_hurricane_season#Season_effects Florence brought 45 billion in damages, Michael most likely will go beyond that (and the season is not over yet).

Most damages are impossible to put in numbers, trust in the safety of the place you live, work, invest getting damaged. Tourism gone. Trust in governments gone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 12 2018 at 2:14am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 11 2018 at 12:54am
Agreed that water does most of the damage during a hurricane. Michal produced a huge surge no doubt.

I was only taking issue with the wind speeds they said.   We should all know more in the morning.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 11:09pm
Deep Thinker, MrMBB333 also compared hurricanes with tornadoes-in my (DJ) opinion this is incorrect because with hurricanes most damage is done by the water/surge/rain...(But I admit I am not an expert)

BPEarthwatch also expressing surprise "Michael" remaining a hurricane-on land-that long. Unprecedented ! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YjU8iXLyaq4 "There must be a lot of damage"!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 10:23pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 10:02pm
The satellite image looked very impressive and that 919 is scary like I said....

However look at the pictures we have of Andrews aftermath, or even Katrina...    a Cat 4/5 hurricane doesn't damage stuff, it is a slate wiper. The damage is like an ef 2or3 tornado that is 20 miles wide. Homes are stripped to their foundation and even all your vegetation gets stripped clean.   So far what we see is homes with roofs torn off not homes that have blown away. Maybe we haven't seen the worst of the damage yet, however we had storm chasers actually out broadcasting from in and around the eye. They would be dead if the winds where 155.

Maybe it has something to do with the rapid intensification... maybe those stronger winds never made it down the surface.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 9:37pm
DeepThinker; maybe the strength of "Michael" is in the area effected ? (About 10% of the US population involved directly). Also https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LFkjxwsx94M Mr.MBB333 is correct; SE Georgia had no reason to expect a cat-2 hurricane going that far inland !

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1-wzvLovAwRobert Scribler-"Michael" did increase in strength fast-the "models" did underestimate what was coming. (DJ-In my opinion when experts are surprised at what is unfolding can you blame citizens for underestimating this storm? Proberbly many would have left when they were told a cat5 was coming!)

In2ThinAir https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkKdkfYahBw expecting "Michael" proberbly remaining a cat1-OVER LAND !!!!-for several hours and wondering what it will do when it reaches the Atlantic. (DJ-https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at4+shtml/212416.shtml?cone#contents has "Michael" as a storm. But maybe they will "rethink" the situation ?)

DJ-Let me be clear when a cat5 storm ever would come over the Netherlands we are knocked-out and will be down for a very long time if we would not get foreign aid. Even with the best protection you can not avoid extreme damage as a result of extreme force.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Atlantic_hurricane_season#Season_effects will get updated-most damages are in things that do NOT happen, tourists that do NOT come, investments NOT being made etc.

https://www.wunderground.com/news
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jacksdad Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 9:31pm
I'm watching the footage of the aftermath, and I see nothing to suggest that the wind speeds were being exaggerated. Every media outlet - from Fox to CNN - seemed to be in agreement that it was just shy of Cat 5 when it made landfall. I'm curious as to why you think it was being reported as being more powerful than it actually was. What would be the end game?

"Buy it cheap. Stack it deep"
"Any community that fails to prepare, with the expectation that the federal government will come to the rescue, will be tragically wrong." Michael Leavitt, HHS Secretary.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote DeepThinker Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 2:24pm
I wish we really knew the truth of this...   Yes that 919 looks really bad but I don't know how they figured it.   However those wind speeds are WAY off there is no evidence of winds greater than about 110-120mph. We do have a gust at the AFB hat was 130+.    But that was just a gust and I am looking at pictures of damage. Yes it was a strong hurricane but here is very little evidence that it is the "strongest ever" or what ever they want to say.   I know it is possible that we have not yet gotten reports from the hardest hit places. I maybe jumping the gun here but I pray I am right.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 11:17am
https://www.wunderground.com/news/storms/hurricane/news/2018-10-10-hurricane-michael-cat4-landfall-unprecedented-location:
Michael plowed ashore just after midday Wednesday near Mexico Beach, Florida, packing maximum sustained winds of 155 mph.

With an estimated minimum central pressure of 919 millibars, Michael was the third most intense hurricane landfall in the continental United States, according to NOAA's Hurricane Research Division.

(DJ-cat 5 =wind156mph+ and pressure -920mb)
Michael was by far the most intense hurricane to landfall in the Florida Panhandle, according to NOAA's 167-year best-track hurricane database.

Prior to Michael, there were 27 Category 4 or stronger hurricanes that made landfall in the continental U.S. in records dating to 1851, according to NOAA's Hurricane Research Division.
-
Michael will also be the first Category 4+ continental U.S. hurricane landfall to happen in October in 64 years.

There have been only four such landfalls since the mid-19th century.

http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/database/index.php?pageid=tstorm_read&trid=1296

https://www.wunderground.com/news/storms/hurricane/news/2018-10-10-hurricane-michael-cat4-historic-landfall-gulf-coast-florida


http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/u-s-national-news/3259-1-36-pm-edt-landfall-155-mph-sustained-winds

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-10-10/extremely-dangerous-hurricane-michael-strengthens-cat-4-southeast-braces-record:
Update (1:40 pm ET): The "worst case scenario" has become a reality. Hurricane Michael made landfall near Mexico Beach, Florida at 1:40 pm as a Category 4 hurricane with sustained winds of 155 miles per hour (that's 2 mph shy of Category 5 status). Already, the storm is the most powerful hurricane to make landfall in the Continental US in 14 years.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 10 2018 at 12:31am
In 144 hrs "Michael" is expected as a post-tropical 981mb depression somewere west of Ireland. It can/will bring severe weather in a week-more or less-from now somewere in western Europe. https://www.tropicaltidbits.com/storminfo/14L_gefs_latest.png

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Florida-Panhandle-Bracing-Potential-Category-4-Hit-Michael and https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/text/refresh/MIATCPAT4+shtml/100555.shtml "Michael" is now a cat4 hurricane.

Models trending stronger with Michael
The 18Z Tuesday run of our top intensity model from 2017, the HWRF model, predicted that Michael would peak as a Category 4 storm with 145 mph winds at 8 am EDT Wednesday, then weaken to a high-end Category 3 with 125 mph winds at landfall, early Wednesday afternoon. The 18Z Tuesday run of the HMON model predicted Michael would peak as a Category 4 storm with 150 mph winds at 8 am Wednesday, then weaken by landfall to a Category 4 hurricane with 140 mph winds. The latest 0Z Wednesday runs of our other two top intensity models, DSHIPS and LGEM, predicted that Michael would make landfall as a borderline Category 3 or 4 hurricane with 125 – 130 mph winds. Landfalling Category 4 hurricanes are rare in the mainland U.S., with just 24 such landfalls since 1851—an average of one every seven years. (Category 5 landfalls are rarer still, with just three on record).
-
Our two most reliable rapid intensity forecasting models, SHIPS and DTOPS, predicted with their 0Z Wednesday forecasts that Michael had a 20% and 0% chance, respectively, of becoming a Category 5 hurricane with 160 mph winds before landfall. SHIPS is the model NHC uses operationally to forecast rapid intensification, and DTOPS is an experimental model that NHC started evaluating last year.

DJ-Will companies invest in a country that is this likely to get hit by extreme weather this often when there may be better alternatives ? Canada, Mexico, even some islands do better than the US in dealing with extreme weather.

Just like Japan, China, the US is more than average vulnarable for climate change related extreme weather events. But unlike Japan, China (the EU and others) the US is doing "not that much" to deal with it.

As a result large area's of the US may turn into a chemical wasteland, infrastructure chronicly in bad shape.

From a Dutch perspective-we take the sea very serious. In 1945-at the end of World War 2-10% of the Netherlands (not just coastal area's also riverarea's were the Germans did blow up dyke's to stop Allied forces) was under water. A stormsurge feb 1-1953 did kill over 1800 people in the west of this country-with severe flooding in a large part of NW Europe.

Repeated, ever stronger, hurricanes (and other extreme weather) at the long run-in my opinion-may become so damaging the US has not enough time to "get back on its feet again". With "Oscar" now at 40% chance of formation within 5 days-east of Nicaragua-the https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018_Atlantic_hurricane_season may become-just like 2017-"ugly".

For the people in the effected area's I am very sorry, hope damage stays limited-take care of all you care for.

https://weather.com/news/news/2018-10-09-michael-storm-surge-erode-florida-beaches
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 10:40pm
Regarding the question in the thread title: I don't think that hurricanes will destroy the US, but with repeated hitting they will definitely weaken it by taking a huge economic toll.

The extent of the economic toll will depend on political rules, such as flood insurance being paid to rebuild a house (in a flood area) rather than moving people to more secure areas.


[(Apart from Yellowstone blowing, or a powerful EMP attack,) I see the possibly a large earthquake on the other side of the country, if the "independent" faults are actually connected, a possibly being financially devastating enough to destroy the country]
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 9:24pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ba_8pKa-g3A&t=33s
BPEarthwatch describing his experience during "Katrina" when he was 120 miles away from New Orleans. Two weeks no water or electricity, 120 miles windgusts during the storm, trucks full of bodybags....
DJ-Michael may be stronger, do more damage...I would not be surprised when Michael reaches the Atlantic (Thursdaynight/Friday early morning) it could even-for a while reach cat1 status again.....

Healthwise http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/database/index.php?pageid=event_desc&edis_id=EH-20181010-64964-USA there are many worries-after the hurricane some places will see a drop in temperatures when a cold front moves in.

East of Nicaragua "Oscar" is most likely to form-may follow "Michael's"path. (And YES this is all climate change related, YES Trump and other politicians are bribed by the fossil fuel industry, it is up to us-the people-to inform eachother, make changes. Politics do not lead-they follow)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 8:58pm
Hurricanes can sit out in the Gulf of Mexico, gathering energy from the warm Gulf waters, so Michael may yet grow beyond a Category 3.

There are other tropical storms & depressions worldwide....one, Sergio, is hovering off the coast of Mexico in the Pacific Ocean and seems likely to impact Mexico, California, Arizona and other locations with torrential rain.

There are also storms off the coast of Saudi Arabia, India, and out in the open Atlantic Ocean worth watching.   Global warming is expressing itself nicely in increased storm activity as has been long predicted.

I hope the folks in Florida, Mississippi and Alabama are thankful for having elected Trump into office!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 8:37pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 09 2018 at 10:00am
13 News Now https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ki_8XoJzkfo,
https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Michael-Near-Category-3-Strength-it-Heads-Towards-Florida,
http://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/news/u-s-national-news/3251-hurricane-michael-grave-danger-for-florida-panhandle-24-hours-left-to-get-out

DJ-"Michael" can become a "monster". There is at present some dry air to the west of Michael-bringing sheerwinds, may slow down/weaken the system. On the other hand there are some indications "Michael"is gaining strength because of the very warm-and warm up to sometimes 100 meters-seawater.
This morning (C.E.T.) BP Earthwatch showed 52% cat3, 32% cat4. The way it developes may give room for a more pessimistic view...

"Michael"will move high speed over the Carolina's. This means that in the NE quarter of the storm you may have to add up the (anti-clockwise) windspeed from the hurricane and the speed of movement of the system.

Stormsurge and rain may get a very serious problem in the SE-US. On Friday "Michael" is expected-as a storm- to move into the Atlantic maybe scratching New Jersey. Some changes may bring it over New York.
https://www.nhc.noaa.gov/refresh/graphics_at4+shtml/152906.shtml?cone#contents

13NewsNow mentions at present FOUR stormsystems in the Atlantic. Nadine and Leslie most likely very limited risks, a new system may form in several days east of Nicaragua. (But it is only showing up in a few models).

Sergio may reach western Texas-as a depression- saterday via northern Mexico.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 10:20pm
Very serious situation;

https://www.wunderground.com/cat6/Michael-Gains-Steam-SE-Gulf-Cat-3-Landfall-Likely-Gulf-Coast:

NHC is predicting Michael’s top winds to reach 120 mph (Cat 3 strength) on Wednesday morning shortly before landfall. Michael could come ashore with Category 2 winds, and a Category 4 strike cannot yet be ruled out, but a Cat 3 landfall appears the most likely outcome.
-
In fact, the official NHC forecast late Monday predicted that Michael would still be a 50-mph tropical storm as it reaches eastern North Carolina late Thursday, more than a day after landfall. Winds of this strength can easily bring down trees in wet soil, a threat that has proven deadly in hurricane after hurricane.

BPEarthwatch https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgzJGYXbqHk some models go for cat4.
In2thinair https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPQs2P0i-9M&t=8s
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 08 2018 at 9:33am
DJ; According to MrMBB333 there is so much warm water in the Gulf of Mexico "Michael" could reach cat-3 status before hitting the SE US. Extreme stormsurge and extreme rain on it's way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AjWSFGKcRRU

Thanks, DJ! Please watch Michael in real time via this link:

https://earth.nullschool.net/#current/wind/surface/level/orthographic=-75.52,24.29,1736/loc=-85.118,21.847
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