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| Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
Ukraine-the truth-the pathogen spreads |
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Medclinician 
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 Posted: November 15 2009 at 8:05pm |
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KavkazCenter
direct feed- - I'm flying to Odessa this night. In Ukraine there is swine flu or pneumonic plague. They say that already died whether a thousand, or 1500 people, writes Corneliy Glas from Yerevan.
- A call on to mobile. On army channels - "Pneumonic plague. Ternopil
region - 26 dead. Barracks rearranged into hospitals", said Eustas a
resident of Ukraine. "I have met with friends from the western Ukraine, the doctors say that the lungs of the dead were black. And that, perhaps this is not influenza but pneumonic plague. Well, if this is indeed a plague, then the news won't mention it for now, and certainly - it's 100% death (according to the U.S. for 1950-1994 - 41%, but the American health care, of course, not Ukrainian, and American doctors knew that they are dealing with a plague - KC). "1 woman died in the area of Odessa. Swine influenza has not been confirmed, most likely pneumonic plague was the cause.
Odessa and the region is already infected, most likely, is mutated
pneumonic plague ", - said one of the doctors of private clinics in
Odessa. doctors in u.k. are reporting these same black lungs and observations with autopsies of persons that have died from this disease. |
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Technologist
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Posted: November 16 2009 at 3:05am |
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Med read A1&A2's link and Erase all the those end of the world and pneumonic plague thoughts out of your head because you're wrong and it's not any type of Pneumonic Plague ************************************************************************************************* The Head of the Chernivtsi regional forensic bureau, Professor Victor Bachinsky M.D. Professor Victor Bachinsky, M.D. is a coroner in the Chernivtsi region of Ukraine. He also teaches at the Department of Anatomical Pathology and Forensic Medicine of Bukovynian State Medical Academy. No it is not pneumonic plague. Its all nonsense During autopsies, what did the lungs look like? Were they really black, which gave rise to so much talk of pulmonary plague? No, they are not black. This is not pneumonic plague. Its all nonsense. Pneumonic plague has a very different morphology. We have, for example, 60 thousand people who became sick and 23 have died. With pulmonary plague, we would now have a mortality rate of 59 thousand http://www.australia.to/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=16324:ukraine-flu-outbreak-virus-is-a-mixture-of-h1n1-and-parainfluenza&catid=116:breaking-news&Itemid=298 Or you can read the translated version here. http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=bf-home&trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.unian.net%2Frus%2Fnews%2Fnews-346721.html&lp=ru_en&btnTrUrl=Translate |
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coyote
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Posted: November 16 2009 at 3:49am |
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LINK:British scientists testing Ukrainian 'super flu' that has killed 189 people.
An unnamed doctor in western Ukraine told of the alarming effects of the virus. He said: 'We have carried out post mortems on two victims and found their lungs are as black as charcoal. They look like they have been burned. It's terrifying.' |
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Long time lurker since day one to Member.
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 16 2009 at 5:45am |
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------- While literally covering the net- this is the opinion of one man and a formal .gov release of information. Professor Victor Bachinsky, M.D. is
a coroner in the Chernivtsi region of Ukraine. He also teaches at the
Department of Anatomical Pathology and Forensic Medicine of Bukovynian
State Medical Academy. So- this is one scientist, one group of cadavers, and one female press interviewers story. There simply needs to be more information before drawing any sweeping conclusions. It is as unscientific to assume this to be the whole story as to assume any partial report. There are a considerable number of sources with conflicting data. Personally, I am beginning to find this a sensitive and politically dangerous topic. There are simply not enough scientists or research here for everyone investigating this to sit back and go- ok- yes- one man says its all nonsense. Well, perhaps the cadavers and specimen studied here were what is stated, However from another data source almost 8 different pathogens are listed as currently circulating through the population. The explanation given is but another series of opinions as to what this is. There are a wide variety of conflicting opinions and there is a need for more data. Even more than the determination of how serious the Swine Flu Pandemic becomes, here we need to monitor further cases and behavior of the disease. Several doctors have made conflicting statements. As always, we will hope for the least serious final cause of what is certainly a widespread outbreak in the Ukraine. Viruses and bacteria can mutate. Example would be H1N1 Pandemic which has a far less CFR than seasonal flu at this point. At the same time, a huge killers in the past could down mutate in a less virulent form. The scientific approach to this is to simply to continue to monitor the cases and deaths and most of all the view the still unreleased gene sequence of this pathogen. That will tell us beyond a doubt, what it is. The world of politics is a dangerous place, and often proving one is right is less important than personal safety. Not enough data to make any sort of statement that the entire outbreak can be explained this way. However, perhaps there are some topics best left unpursued until we see a) the spread of this outbreak to a second country and b) more analysis from independent countries outside the Soviet sphere if it becomes a problem. If I have ticked anyone off on this- I am now backing away. Too dangerous. Got that guys. I do not want a night #2, of what happened to me last night. I am bailing on this topic. Med |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 12:11am |
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I can now resume this thread as the disease hits the mainstream. It was dangerous being out there alone and there were rumbles and threats.
The reason even the mention of this disease (pneumonic plague) is so sensitive is that is has been an effective bio weapon for some time and the presence of a disease which also has echoes of bio weapon is similar to our current dilemma of having a military psychiatrist with connections to extremists and carrying an SOA card- (I will not set this post up for a web search by spelling that out)- and then refusing on the news to call this terrorist- is the same problem. The emergence of pneumonic plague- and while not prevalent- we have bubonic plague in the prairie dogs in public natural parks in the Sunbelt in America- is not that incredible. It is a question of how much pneumonic plague cloaked in an outbreak of swine flu. Actually one source documented 8 strains of various viruses and bacteria in the Ukraine. Since there are several hundred strains of disease in Los Angeles, this is not that incredible. And with every outbreak, from the woodwork come the conspiracy theorists that some one did it- and the ever present cloud- as when the white man gave the Indians smallbox blankets- throughout history- and really covered well it has happened. Poland is obstinate in terms of either being vaccinated, but is on alert for the mysterious other illness present among the Swine Flu in the Ukraine. At one report, there was only one death in the Ukraine caused by Swine flu as opposed to a number of others from still unsequenced virus or bacteria. The story continues- and now since mainstream has picked it up- I can resume documenting it. Those posting from mainstream will probably start threads and put up such link types. Yet- there are moderately verifiable non-mainstream feeds (since mainstream is far from reliable really- it can be as prone to misinformation as a blog and have come out with some notorious fables-i.e. the balloon boy) And as always there is the spin- that which is comfortable and echoed and often not exactly-the truth-about the new outbreak. Medclinician |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 2:11am |
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Flu Death Toll in Ukraine Continues to Grow Rapidly
 KIEV, November 17 (RIA Novosti) - The number of deaths in Ukraine from flu viruses has risen to 315, with 16 passing away over the past 24 hours, the Health Ministry has reported. note: the new term flu viruses and not H1N1 The ministry said earlier that 15 regions in the ex-Soviet republic had already crossed the flu epidemic threshold, while 11 provinces were close to it. The Ukrainian government imposed quarantine in nine western provinces in late October in an attempt to curb the spread of flu. (more in Novosti at link) http://en.rian.ru/exsoviet/20091117/156867601.html Medclinician |
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Loribearme
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 5:19am |
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This is very serious news and the mainstream is not reporting on it as they should so to me it sounds like deception. The black lungs did not come from the coal mines!
Technologist....please stop your flaming responses because this is serious - it is looking more like bio warefare and it is coming our way.
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waenderer
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 6:31am |
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the bleeding lungs; togheter with the speed of it all...makes me wonder if it isn t a h5n1 type ?
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4=laro
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 9:16am |
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Many believe the H1N1 is lab created since it has some H5N1 in it. If we have a mutation, maybe the H5N1 is taking over, or better yet, maybe a new one has been created in the lab and is now being tested in the Ukrane. The goal of the Iluminiti is to reduce the population of the world. I just dont see it happening until China is really hit with a killer disease. You noticed China made their own H1N1 vaccine, they did not buy from the US or European manufactures.
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4=laro
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 9:56am |
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http://socioecohistory.wordpress.com/2009/11/07/joseph-moshe-warning-on-ukraine-bio-engineered-flu-virus/
This doesnt add up, something is wrong with this picture. More coverup and lies? U be the judge, is he a terrorist or someone who needs to be suppressed. |
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waterboy
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 12:18pm |
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Looks suspicious to say the least. Very interesting find.
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MamaBear4
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 3:19pm |
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4=Laro, How is China doing with the Swine Flu? How many deaths have they had?
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4=laro
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 6:40pm |
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I think China has reported one flu death related to the H1N1. I am beginning to believe we are being fed a pile of crap about the Ukraine. If it is so bad over there, why hasnt it spread to the rest of Europe, dont people cross the borders everyday by foot, car, bus and plane? This dead fish is starting to stink.
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waenderer
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Posted: November 17 2009 at 10:12pm |
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4=laro : don t forget that a fluseason takes 18 months and more...
the outbreak in Ukraine is real and confirmded by international scientists...
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4=laro
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 6:05am |
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How are things in Spain, any flu there? I do believe the next hot spot will be China.
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 9:33am |
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Laro, I have new information I am going to put up today. We have verification of 1.4 million cases of something and we know for certain many of these are not swine flu. We must proceed with caution in terms of speculations, realize the political party trying to be elected is taking camera crews to pharmacies and making an issue of the poor handling of health care as a platform issue. To be blunt- and I think my personal safety is as safe as its ever going to be- the basic conspiracy on the net is that Russia sprayed Ukraine so they could reclaime the entire country, nuclear arsenal,and fleet in an effort to rebuild the old mother Russia. THis is pretty fiery stuff. I am not saying I put any creedence in this- but Russia is impulsive- invaded Afghanistan- Georgia- and when they decide to do something- they just do it and see who will do what. This is a dangerous policy, but is quite effective. Just as Israel invaded West Bank and no one did anything. There is a massive number of conspiracy blogs which equate this with an intentional virus or plague engineered by Baxter labs and released into the public to kill the feeders. I am hearing this globally as well as other mainstream. The gist is that it was an engineered pathogen and was not intended to get outside the Ukraine. Now I can anticipate comments on this. Do don't shoot the messenger. These are not my beliefs, I am not pushing them, I am only telling you what is out there. Pushing this aside- and as per the name of this thread-we need to get to the truth. The truth is obviously for personal and political interests not in the mainstream or formal statements. There windows of truth- but they are highly spun. We know this. We have moderately confirmed reports of pneumonic plague and probably 8 strains of pathogens moving through the Ukraine. The vaccine and Tamiflu may be effective against some strains of H1N1- but there is a chance even it has mutated. It cannot be totally explained away by the last statement on this paraflu- on a handful of autopsies by one doctor released as the gospel. There are intercepted communications of pick up of bodies as well as autopsies in U.K. saying the other diseases or some or bleeders- and more lethal. It is entirely possible this has already spread into the U.S. in a very small amount or even larger amount and could account for people very ill and testing negative to Swine Flu. Also our tests are flawed. One is only 50% accurate. Skye, my son had to be tested twice. This other disease(s) is not a bunch of crap. Nations are sending supplies and resources- I even have jet schedules and I know 6.4 tons arrived in I believe Kiev yesterday of supplies from Canada. We need to chill, get less jumpy- and just track stuff. We have people going off on some wild tangents and have for the last year. There are demonstrations against the current governement across the United States. There is civil unrest in the Ukraine and according to off the record sources- martial law was declared and there has been damage to the fleet of the Ukraine- i.e. an infection rate big enough to compromise their national defense. Let us try not to be over reactive to posts. Not all are dataminers or conspiracy nuts- we just see stuff and put it up- and often what starts conspiracy (i.e. my reports starting Nov 1st on this- become mainstream) Lets go back to something solid in October 30th, 2009 The plague or virus in the Ukraine has 10 times the mortality rate (attributed to) normal swine flu. It may signal what's soon heading everywhere. On October 29, the Australian web site zik.com.ua reported that:
On October 30, Jane Burgermeister's theflu.com reported that: "More than 30 people have died in the Ukraine as a result of a mysterious new virus that has an affinity for the lungs," according to Swiss reports. Ukraine's Health Ministry said the virus' origin is unknown and showed "no signs of mutating to become more virulent." So far, 40,000 people were reported sick and 951 hospitalized. The situation as I have last posted shows us this has spread massively and the death count may be close to 400 now. The outbreak is real. Today- between my life- I am going to see if I can track this 'other disease(s)' and prove it has spread outside the Ukraine. If the Ukraine navy was infected all the quarantines in Ukraine would not contain it being passed by sailors in other ports i.e. Poland. Poland and India are two of the most likely spot for this to emerge
(not Swine Flu- but its other respiratory alternatives which are
killing people and spreading rapidly) as we head into winter it is most
like to become a greater problem. I have posted the conspiracy theories and have labeled them as
conspiracy. We should be aware of them and not treat them like lepers
and at the same time - consider their may be a germ of truth in each
one. They are probaby 90% false. It is my responsible purpose to try and research and share what I
find. Feel free to comment on the results of that research as long as
you keep the comments on the data. Each person is entitled to post-
well I think that is just a load of ....... It is much more useful
rather than just opinions- to post a link backing up your viewpoint and
briefly explaining it. IMHO we will see waves of this in the U.S. unless it remains a quick
killer and they can contain it. Today I will see if I can find if it
has spread. Any help would be appreciated.
Medclinician Work with me on this guys. We either have a new wave of something brewing, or will have by March. This is highly likely, and it may be from the Ukraine. Medclinician |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 12:09pm |
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http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=nl&sl=uk&tl=en&u=http://www.moz.gov.ua/ua/main/press/%3FdocID%3D14084&prev=hp&rurl=translate.google.com
I hope this will revert back to English and link will stay solid- dated but from health ministry. Medclinician |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 12:39pm |
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This in from Hungary would indicate the outbreak in Ukraine is from an unknown pathogen- not H1N1 - i.e. nor a mutation of H1N1
http://hisz.rsoe.hu/alertmap/woalert_read.php?cid=23630&cat=dis&lang=eng
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waenderer
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 1:18pm |
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4= laro: here is Spain it is going bad fast...600 kids admited in one hospital in one weekend says something...the governement is very hush hush about it...
but hospitals are being overwhlemed in some regions...
the north is hit the hardest.
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Glow
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Posted: November 18 2009 at 2:14pm |
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Schools in Spain are opened?
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 3:32am |
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It is likely we will see this phenomena move from country to. My time grows short for the second of my physical challenges occur November 24, 2009. The survival of this will be a turning point in my life and the life of my family-Bluebird and Skye. I prepare for 3 operations which will determine my survival. These operations must be done before The first wave of the new disease(s) hit the U.S. If they become a virulent as I suspect they will- from 5-15%. At that point the medical system could collapse and I will die a singular suffering death from must be taken before there are not surgeons or working hospitals to do life saving invasive procedures. These outbreaks and eventual infection of the U.S. by March will make unimportant SARS-Avian-and Swine Flu. Even the necessity for the vaccine which will not address these diseases unless they are merely small mutations of h1n1 will be useless. We are seeing through the underground the spread of the outbreak in Ukraine.
This knowledge cannot be hidden forever. Many doctors in Ukraine have turned in autopsy reports - some by the hundreds confirming pneumonic plague. The inadequacy of the medical profession and WHO, and CDC, in dealing with common pneumonia, and viral pneumonia with a list of 4 antivirals 3 or which will be compromised by Swine Flu- and the variant pneumonic diseases both viral and bacteria - infecting hundreds of millions will soon follow their path. Whether pplague, or new strains of virus which will work together as my Pack Theory indicates - we in for a great challenge. If events in health plan strategy occur- the system will be overwhealmed without money or resources to handle the next Pandemic. As the Swine began in Texas and at Baxter before it was -'discovered' in VeraCruz- this began as all true Pandemics will... in China in an outbreak in August of 2009. This displayed the growing potential of viruses and prions to beat the current race of technology and are faster than we at developing ways to infect us and become more pathogenic. I hope to keep this thread pure. Please feel free to put up comments. If these are your opinions, please indicate they are. If they are dialogue- facts refuting othere data- please give links and information with personal non-relevant observations on the poster. That way we can stay in the realm of pure and objective science and give the most pure and accurate information to our readers. Prepare. Not if, but when this pantheon of diseases will arrive in the U.S. and likely present a greater challenge than we have ever seen before in a Pandemic that has yet to come. My days are numbered- the question is for me as I try to keep you informed- but now many. That being said let us continue. I am not competing with Coyote's thread and the intense dialog nor the variation from it beginning as focused on the mutation of H1N1. The thesis of this thread is that it is either a severe mutation so much so that our vaccine will severely compromise, or that it is something else and most vaccines will be useless, and we will fight it with few options and the best we can. Medclinician |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 3:41am |
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I am moving to a thread on Spain to track H1N1 and give you in Spain more data than you may have access to now on the Swine Flu as well as the new series of diseases which are beginning to spread. Medclincian |
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Crusoe
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 4:26am |
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Why are we still guessing what it is? Where is the WHO's analysis of this Ukrainian disease? Is it H1N1 or not?
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 5:09am |
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According to some sources WHO is withholding the details of the genetic sequencing that has not only been done in the Ukraine but other other areas of pathogens which are respiratory i.e. very hemorrhagic and likely to be viral pneumonia and even pneumonic plague. WHO clearly stated in its visit to the Ukraine the the mystery disease which was a large portion of a 1.4 million infection was not entirely Swine Flu. Current report is this- Health Ministry: Flu, respiratory diseases claim 344 lives in Ukraine (Reports are confusing) Kyivpost ^ | 11-18-09 Posted on Wednesday, November 18, 2009 6:02:11 PM by Mother Abigail Health Ministry: Flu, respiratory diseases claim 344 lives in Ukraine Yesterday at 20:36 | Interfax-Ukraine The current flu epidemic and other acute respiratory diseases in Ukraine has claimed 344 lives by Wednesday evening, the Health Ministry said. It said 18 people had died of such diseases in the previous 24 hours. The ministry said 1.502 million people had contracted such illnesses since the epidemic broke out and that 44,781 had fallen ill in the past 24 hours. A total of 83,904 people have been hospitalized since the start of the epidemic, and 54,407 of them have been discharged from the hospital by Wednesday evening. The ministry also said 2,878 people had been hospitalized for the previous 24 hours. The ministry has published no separate statistics on cases of A/H1N1 influenza or swine flu.comment: This is the core problem. Transparency is decreasing and despite knowledge of this their being multiple pathogens and sequences are done on those and the information is there, is is not being told the people. General statements which conclusions but WHO as well while having specific knowledge of exactly what this is- will not go public. I have posted other threads suggesting whatever this or these are- have spread to Norway and China due to a specific gene change as I have documented else where. They are not telling for a reason. One reason (speculative comment) is that it may decrease or make ineffective the vaccine we current intend to use. It also may effect the resistance of the disease to our antivirals i.e. Tamiflu as well as Relenza. We track this day by day and simply try to give accurate information which at times veers outside the mainstream spin which is flooding the Internet. When you stop counting and go to the trend method which is the vehicle to obscure precise information. The infrastructure cares about how the disease effects the infrastructure. The common person cares about how many people have it- perhaps as many as 60,000,000 in the U.S., how many are in hospitals- and a true accurate number of deaths so we can compute how virulent it is. Ukraine is about to follow the path of the U.S. Hide the numbers. The real numbers. Medclinician |
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4=laro
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 7:18am |
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Thanks for all the replys from Spain. It sounds like you have a decent spread of the H1N1 going on there. I am sure it will only be rumors you hear about the black and burned looking lungs but that seems to be the next step. I have another question, Do you have reports of low flying airplanes spraying at night?
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 7:38am |
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This is why I had stopped posting on this thread. Yet the problem is many of them are on conspiracy boards like prison planet and yet there are individual reports from people who claimed they observed this. I have reports from people who also saw UFOs and were abducted. Would Russia do something like this? Would Saddam Hussein invade Kuwait? Would Russia Invade Afghanistan? How about Georgia? How about have war exercises with Argentina, Bolivia, and Cuba with their flagship Peter the Great? Russia in unpredictable-as is the Taliban- as is Iran- and is Israel- Would Russia get ticked off an launch- the new guard if we got into a nose to nose in the Persian Gulf and shots were exchanged with an escorted (with nuke subs) Iranian oil tanker. Ya never know. The old guard was asked by Cuba to launch on us. Russia said Castro was nuts and they never would start a global thermonuclear war. That was then. We live in a world where we do not know if at least some of the scary conspiracy type stuff could happen. People find it entertaining. They get a lot of facts mixed up with fiction. Fact-people do go to war and when they do.. many people die. Germs are the ultimate don't muddy the factories and machinery weapons. I would use a blue vial far before a nuke if I were in national defense- unless it was a tactical nuclear strike of equal force. Medclinician |
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mysty
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 6:15pm |
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All we can do in my opinion is share what we hear. After that, it is up to the individual to block it out or consider it- to prepare or not. I think you're doing a great job med. Keep going.
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4=laro
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Posted: November 19 2009 at 7:25pm |
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Med, My opinion may be different then yours and one thing about me, I get to the point and dont have to write for 3 days to get my point across.
In the future when you see my logo showing I wrote something, use your option and just skip over it. |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 20 2009 at 8:51am |
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Laro- we all need a ground and sometimes as said by John Lennon in Strawberry fields.. When he says in the song, No one I think is in my tree, I mean it must be high or low, he is saying his feelings are set apart from his contemporaries. Sometime in working with the government they think I am pretty out there- but I think out of the box- and occasionally I can solve what no one else can- cos- well - I just can. Although I write papers and inventions for peer review I can be very precise to the word. And quid pro quo- finding my verbosity painful- do the same-just skip me unless you feel it might be worth it to get the gold. Since I have put up 10,000 posts part of it is entertainment for me. The president wanted a large paragraph from me faxed to get a reply. Most high ups at the Pentagon or Darpa or DOE want it in a page, until you submit your grant app. Arnold's people (Calif) wanted a page- I can do that. We have a lot of of people here- like Mary- and I like reading Mary or Lori who span pages. Each to his own. Besides- if you have a lot of data- this isn't Cliffs notes. c_hat_site, ya know. I am not a ped dispenser. I do this for free. Take care. Med |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 20 2009 at 8:53am |
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That was nice Mysty. Those are the make my day posts. Thx :) jb / Med |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 21 2009 at 4:18am |
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It would appear that a pathogen - possibly released in the Ukraine has defied containment and is spreading through other countries. Having been tracking this only three weeks since it began- now we are seeing thousands of articles and multiple threads emerging here on what was a single topic.
I will continue to post on this on the net. Med |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 23 2009 at 5:14am |
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http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=16225 the current situation What began in Ukraine is spreading across Europe.Tracking in multiple countries we see what may be a more serious H1N1 and also other respiratory diseases. Each country, in its own way has shut down a considerable amount of data flowing from the press, while local newspapers and media often tell a different story. The conspiracy sites on the net of course muddy the water with theories of their own. Rarely in the history of Pandemics- at least as per my research has the 3rd wave been the worst. But then we may not be dealing with the a new wave of Swine Flu. We may be dealing with a completely different pathogen. The autopsies describing blackened lungs of victims are pretty well verified. This would indicated a bleeder- and something a lot more serious than the low path second time around Swine Flu Pandemic. Has it changed? WHO said they believed we had a variant. This is in direct opposition to the statements over months that there has been no mutation in Swine Flu. Statements that it did not mutate in Brazil, in the Netherlands, in Japan. Ukraine did not vaccinate to stop this and they could have. Why not? Poland will not vaccinate either. http://www.google.com/hostednews/canadianpress/article/ALeqM5gv1fdvc4AD2VpBJEOIi4N6Eke6jQ John Bell- CEO Crystalware Defense - Medical and Technology Research aka Medclinician author of Pandemic Now Survival Guide |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 24 2009 at 5:18am |
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This has become a very high stakes series of events. It boils down to
if the virus has mutated enough, the massive vaccine pool will not be
effective. Considering the symptoms we have two choices- a mutation or
a single or other pathogens.
We already have tracked this mutation- and it was also tracked by another researcher first on the net. While at times the conclusions and paths this researcher treads are often not accurate- this particular mutation is. I posted a large thread of a separate mutation which began in Brazil and despite the denial of it being a problem, Brazil then had the highest death count of any nation in the world from Swine Flu in the period after that. Directly in contact with individuals in Sao Paulo as well as Rio- one female artist stated- its everywhere and many people here are very ill. Some of us, and Albert has done so, call on the phone directly to foreign countries. I also interview health professionals and try to put together the highly volatile twitter messages to put the pieces of a mystery to find the truth. You are unlikely, because of massive political and economic factors to find the truth from formal government statements. We ran into this in Indonesia, and we are running into this in the Ukraine. Misinformation. Yes, I would agree there are elections in process- but the spread of this series of pathogens is beyond whether this was a deliberate release of disease or a sudden unexplained change when they only had a single Swine Flu death and suddenly they had 1.5 million cases. The deaths- cannot be accurately reported. Basically even with seasonal flu- we would get more fatalities. And based on the symptoms- the extremely bad bleeding in the autopsies I have reports of from towns in the Kiev region- this disease must- must be killing more people than is being reported. For one, there is other information that physicians and other health workers are being specifically told to misdiagnose deaths and to not report many cases. This needs to be investigated further. It is not enough to jump on the bloggers where some of this is coming from and declare it all a hoax. We have a tendency of some here to jump on anything just about and declare it not a threat. This has been consistent through the entire tracking of Avian and now Swine Flu. Let us agree not to agree, and to temper the emotional exchanges with facts and medical reports. The scientists are more credible than either the politicians or government. And in an atmosphere of what this could mean economically- a vaccine which is netting companies billions of dollars which could be lost if the vaccine is proved unsafe or useless is going to draw some heavy fire to us posting it may be unsafe or not effective. Poland will not use it. And we have reports of lots of it from France which have caused damage. There is proof that parts of other vaccines injected into ferrets to test- killed every last animal and also contained live virus. Also- there is proof that there was no excuse for live virus to even be at the facility. In addition- the design of the current pathogen- or one- was patented five years ago- before the outbreak of the current Pandemic. What is truth? Truth is what I daily, despite some serious health issues, try to uncover and bring to the general public. It is what flows through the major search engines to those seeking answers. Some of the answers people do not like. The bottom line is this. If this is a virulent pathogen and has anything in the order of magnitude of CFR some of us anticipate- it will hit America hard. We need to be prepared ahead of time for this despite being told over and over it is a complete fantasy. It is not. Canada and other countries are sending emergency relief, tons of it to Ukraine, and some how desperately other are trying to get out information. Now some are suddenly switching sides. Trying to ride the wave that started a month ago. It is big news now and even the main stream is jumping on board. I am concerned for not only you- the users and readers- but my family. And a huge part of my research is to know in time for my son- whether he will be faced with another pathogen worse than Swine Flu which was hard on him and one that his mother and he have still not completely recovered from. There are reporters, their are posters, and there are scientists. And there are those who talk to scientists and outside the box of the universities gather information. This information, if gathered in earnest and not simply tabloid needs to continue to flow to you- so you as adults may make up your own minds without any government or institution telling you how to think. This is the basis of freedom and our democracy. You don't need to be told what something means and treated as ignorant laymen. Many many hear are very educated and whether by book or by life can judge for themselves, the truth. John Bell- CEO Crystalware Defense - Medical and Technology Research aka Medclinician author of Pandemic Now Survival Guide |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 29 2009 at 8:13am |
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more data-
 Fatal H1N1 Flu Virus Mutation in Ukraine and Norway NAID The receptor binding domain (RBD) for the Ukraine H1N1 mutation, D225G, has been linked to fatal cases of swine flu infection. Demographic and genetic analysis for the H1N1 mutation taking place in the Ukraine virus has been published by Mill Hill, the London laboratory that performed testing on samples from the Ukraine. D225G is the same RBD that was found in the virus that caused the 1918 Spanish flu outbreak. H1N1 mutation fatalities According to this analysis of the Mill Hill lab information, each of the fatal cases of flu from the Ukraine virus contained this marker. D225G is the name for the receptor binding domain of this particular virus. A virus attaches to charged molecules on host cells, but each type of virus attaches to a different type of molecule, in a different way. The H1N1 mutation found in the Ukraine attaches in the same place, in the same way, as the Spanish flu virus from 1918. Detection of the H1N1 mutation While positive results for the H1N1 virus with D225G are not widespread, this may be the result of the methods of testing. Tests for swine flu typically consist of a nasal swab, which is unlikely to pick up this mutated virus, due to its location. The H1N1 mutation that is causing fatalities in the Ukraine and Norway affects the respiratory system, and is found deep in the lungs. < ="text/" ="http://pagead2.googlesyndication.com/pagead/show_ads.js">Ukraine Health Ministry confirms high death rate The Ukraine virus has caused 381 deaths since October 29, according to a statement from the Ukraine Health Ministry on November 21. The death rate increases daily, despite quarantine measures, and may affect the upcoming elections. |
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Technologist
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Posted: November 29 2009 at 9:28pm |
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Med, Your UFO Abduction book is on Ebay for $2.10. I bet someone here will snatch it up considering the US Government grabbed all of the other copies. Michaels, J. B.. TITLE: UFO Encounters: The True Story behind the Brookhaven and Carp Incidents PUBLISHER Stamford, Conn., Longmeadow Press, c1995 http://cgi.ebay.com/Ufo-Encounters-:-J.-B.-Michaels,-Longmeadow-Press-(Hardcover,-1995)_W0QQitemZ341286362120QQ |
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Guests
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Posted: November 29 2009 at 9:42pm |
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Didn't you already get banned and censored for personal attacks once?
Again, relevance?:
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waenderer
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Posted: November 29 2009 at 10:34pm |
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I have friends from Barcelona who saw chem-trails over Barcelona...
they are intelligent bright people...who know the difference between normal jet trails and
these chem trails....so i believe them..
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Technologist
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Posted: November 29 2009 at 10:43pm |
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You're kidding right? Med ( the guy that started this thread ) was talking about Alien Abductions "in this thread on this page" and I pointed out a TRUE book he wrote about UFO's and people getting Abducted by Aliens. That's very relevant... Nothing in this post was an attack at all. Look at the top of this page. That's really Meds book. J.B. = Michaels, J. B = John Bell. No attack and if anything I was helping him sell his book. Med already told us several times he's the author and it's on his websites and he is totally open about it now. Med also said the US Government grabbed all his books and held them for 8 years. Do you need a Link? I'm not making this up. Med is an Expert UFO hunter and we have Real live aliens on this planet according to Med. QUOTE: "JBMichaels has interviewed over two hundred people who witnessed the Carp landing, the South Haven Park crash or actually encoutnered the alien that survived the crash and was held at Brookhaven Lab Ufo Encounters c.1994- Tradepaper paperback - 212 pages -based a true story. $19.95 + s/h includes The TRUE STORY Behind the Brookhaven and Carp Incidents http://web.archive.org/web/20050123225110/jbmichaels.com/Book+Descriptions/dUfoEncounters.htm As for getting banned? Med said he was banned/ blocked or whatever you want to call it about 12 times here. I was restricted from posting for 1 day once and at the same time the owner asked me to make a new account and see if I could post. If that's banned then I'm missing something.
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MarieF
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 3:26am |
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Technologist you are such an annoying child always attacking , anymore I just try to avoid your posts. Why don't you just post rather than attack!! PLAY NICE!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Marie
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Technologist
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 5:01am |
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MarieF, You might want to read my previous post carefully. None of it was in anyway any type of attack on Med. You're looking at the surface and you're not even grasping what I was saying, nor the fact that my posts are usually several moves ahead. Do you even know where my post was leading to? I pointed out a Used book on Ebay that Med wrote. If anything it proves he was/is an author. Something people here have been questioning. That's it! I thought someone in this forum might want to buy it. I'll even give it strong odd's that it get's picked up by someone in this forum. If you're playing mental chess with my posts then step back a few moves as you're already sidetracked and looking for problems that don't exist. Do I believe in UFO's and Aliens? It's been estimated that there could be one hundred billion trillion Earth-like planets in our Universe. When I say universe, I say that in laymen's terms not Seven Dimensional (7-D) and up Einsteinian Hyperspherical Universe or The Seven Dimensional Einsteinian [Not to be confused with Einsteinium] Hyper-spherical Universe as in a Dual universe. I sort of said that twice because most people have yet to grasp a dual universe. The number of life holding planets is estimated at 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 just in case it looked like I made a typo. Do you really think we are the most intelligent species and the only planet capable of supporting advanced life forms. If anything Einstein would look like a mental midget compared to some of the more advanced species thousands to millions of light years away [Note the gap]. It's not like we won that infinitesimally small 1:100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 chance at being at the very top of the universes IQ and Evolution lottery. So yes I have zero doubt that aliens and UFO's exist. The little tiny problem is that pesky time-space continuum that seems to separate us. I don't need to get into the strings of string theory. Do I agree with Med's UFO book or that a UFO landed one mile from his home? No! Do I believe in David Icke's 7-foot tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids that run our country from the Alpha Draconis star system. No! Do we have a right to debate on an intelligent level? Yes! Or are you going to jump in and call people annoying attacking little children every time an intelligent debate is started that you don't understand? Is this forum only here for all of us to agree on every topic? Essentially we would learn absolutely nothing useful but unenforced standards of conduct. |
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Medclinician
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 5:16am |
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Continuing on topic- the threat of a mutating pathogen-
It is possible the threat has reached the United States. This brings it home to us in America. It is not longer the political problem or nebulous issue 6306 miles, as the crow flies from us in the Ukraine. As we sought to verify the autopsies in Iowa and I spoke to the reporter on the phone- her words were- it was an incident- it happened- a coroner was doing his job and stumbled upon something we probably would not have known. That a type of black wet lung (bleeding) condition was present here, undiagnosed, untested, and yet- beyond all filters of information- this data made it through. continuing on the mutation in America John Bell- CEO Crystalware Defense - Medical and Technology Research aka Medclinician author of Pandemic Now Survival Guide |
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reality check
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 9:55am |
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Looks like that new hall monitor has been filled.Marie...you sound very condesending and quite frankly its not becomming....RC
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"tell med the grasshoppers won"
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MarieF
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 10:57am |
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I am just tired of seeing these constant attacks! It just seems to me that anytime and anywhere Med post Technologist is not far behind making some childish remark. Also it's a little funny that you are researching him and just trying to discredit him in any way. Please just read the data and give your point of view without the little JABS, LAUGHS and SARCASM.
You do have some interesting posts but whenever you follow MED it just seems like nonstop attacks. |
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Marie
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Posted: November 30 2009 at 12:05pm |
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Look Tech - all we're asking is that you stick to the spirit of a civil argument. When you post info and arguments, I read them - they're interesting and insightful. When you start slinging mud it just makes me want to skip over, or look for the "ignore this poster" button.
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debracanice
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Joined: April 29 2009 Location: Toronto Status: Offline Points: 260 |
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Posted: December 01 2009 at 2:33am |
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I agree with tec med is posting from stupid blogs , and just making stuff up as he goes , collecting his welfare check and writing this crap
i
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Medclinician wrote:
