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US situation/civil unrest

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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 29 2020 at 6:51am

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/05/begun-the-civil-wars-of-2020-have-.html[/url], [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/cnn-crew-arrested-while-covering-minneapolis-riots[/url],

China [url]https://news.cgtn.com/news/2020-05-29/Police-protests-and-politics-in-the-U-S--QT5d80KYgw/index.html[/url]

Russia [url]https://www.rt.com/usa/490085-twitter-violence-trump-rule-violation/[/url]

see also [url]https://minnesota.liveuamap.com/[/url] and [url] https://usa.liveuamap.com/[/url], [url]http://www.minnecam.com/[/url]

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/george-floyd-worked-security-same-nightclub-officer-who-killed-him[/url] ;

If Chauvin and Floyd were not meeting for the first time in the moments before Floyd’s death, that could potentially mean that there was a deeper motive behind the murder.

If true, this could make the difference between a manslaughter charge or a murder charge.

DJ-This item is easy to become "political"-did the CNN team not leave an area, react to a police order ? There is widespread dissatisfaction (both in and outside the US). The corona-crisis does have major consequences on all area's of all people. From income, health, job security to NPI/lockdowns etc. 

How "out of control"can the US "situation" get (DJ-In my personal view I would feel very frustrated with the presidential candidates-both white old men who should be looking for retirement NOT running the US) ? 

Is there a risk of "gangs" already widespread in the US becoming "warlords"? US government only able to control some area's when they patrol them in armoured vehicles (like in some Brazil area's, Northern Ireland during the "troubles") ? 

Is there a risk of this kind of widespread-politicized-unrest in other countries ? Brazil-yes, Europe ? Russia ? During a second wave ? 

What is-in the US "situation" wisdom ? "Send in the military" or talks on basic income security ? Or both ? 

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/3rd-precinct-burning-500-national-guard-soldiers-activated-minneapolis[/url]

America is quickly descending into chaos as social unrest could spread to other major cities this weekend. Wealth inequality in many inner cities is at record levels. More than 40 million people are unemployed with a crashed economy, and people are already furious about virus lockdowns. This all suggests a perfect storm of unrest could flare up across the country. 

We warned of the possibility of this in late March, "West Faces "Social Bomb" As Pandemic Sparks Unrest Among Poorest."  


DJ-lots of people are not waiting for any riots-eventhough a lot of them agree with basic points of protest (the police should protect citizens, not kill them). 

"This is a developing story"

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 29 2020 at 7:02am

DJ; Since the Chinese article gives a good summary of a major decades old problem I put it here; 

Editor's note: CGTN's First Voice provides instant commentary on breaking stories. The daily column clarifies emerging issues and better defines the news agenda, offering a Chinese perspective on the latest global events.

How many times have U.S. politicians called for reform in the law enforcement system when it comes to race-related issues? Probably too many to count. And how many times have law enforcement operations led to public outcries after reforms were called? Perhaps even more.

On May 25, 46-year-old African-American restaurant worker George Floyd died after a white police officer pressed his knee on his neck for more than eight minutes in Minneapolis, Minnesota. "Please, please. I can't breathe" were Floyd's last words.

In the days after his death, "I can't breathe" became a rallying cry across the state of Minnesota and swept across the rest of the United States. Protests erupted in multiple cities in states like California, Ohio, Colorado, Massachusetts and, of course, Minnesota itself. In many places, violence and chaos took over.

In Denver, protesters marched through downtown and temporarily prevented cars from entering a freeway. Local police fired tear gas and pepper bullets into the group to clear the area. In Columbus, Ohio, police used pepper spray to disperse protesters on the streets. And in Minnesota, the state authority was dealing with the third night of unrest. On Thursday night, protesters reportedly took over Minneapolis police department's 3rd Precinct Building and set the it ablaze. The governor of Minnesota has deployed more than 500 troops of Minnesota's National Guard in an attempt to quell the unrest and restore order.

Vanity Fair calls Floyd's death a "boiling point in America after weeks of sustained racist and violent incidents." But, for a country that has witnessed intensifying racial tension in recent years, the pot just seems to be boiling too often with a solution far out of sight. 

According to the U.S. Department of Justice, the imprisonment rate for African-American men is nearly six times the rate for white men. Despite rising income among African-American households, Brookings Institute released an analysis in February this year saying that the net worth of a typical white family is still almost ten times a black family's. Amid the current COVID-19 pandemic, statistics from U.S. Center for Disease Control and Prevention shows that nearly 23 percent of reported COVID-19 fatalities are African American, even though this particular racial group only makes up 13 percent of total U.S. population. Seeds to unrest have already been set, and all it takes for it to blow up is one incident.

What doesn't help is the current U.S. administration's attitude and actions. Besides the fact that Donald Trump only won eight percent of African-American votes in 2016, CNN reported in mid-May that 79 percent of African Americans believe the federal government is doing badly in stemming the coronavirus, compared to 50 percent of white people who believe the same.

And the administration has indeed demonstrated a cavalier attitude towards race-related issues. Just two weeks ago, President Trump sparred with a Chinese-American CBS News reporter during a press conference, accusing her of asking "nasty question" and saying that she should "ask China." His eagerness to push for reopening the economy is argued by some as putting minorities in danger. Camara Phyllis Jones, adjunct associate professor at the Morehouse School fo Medicine, said during an interview with The Hill that minority communities are hit harder because they are poorer, tend to have more chronic diseases, lack access to healthcare and long-term investment in the community. Trump's response, argued by Jones, hasn't really addressed these problems and the "push to reopen the economy puts those communities further at risk."

Whether George Floyd's death would lead to meaningful changes is still unclear. Police, protests and politics seem to have become a routine set of factors when it comes to race in the United States. It doesn't hurt to hope that something positive could come out of this. But realistically speaking, holding out too much hope could mean greater disappointment.

Scriptwriter: Huang Jiyuan

(If you want to contribute and have specific expertise, please contact us at opinions@cgtn.com.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 30 2020 at 10:48pm

DJ-When I look at the Dutch situation for [url]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Millennials[/url] ; They face debts after studies that were supposed to bring them jobs-due to the coronacrisis partly gone. They face a housing crisis-unless you have a very rich supporter it may take years before you can get enough money to buy a house-if you want "social rent" in most urban area's you may face at least a decade waitinglist. 

Still a lot of the "milennials" still have a job, a house, can deal with possible debts-not all did a study that put them in debt. There is "dissatisfaction" that their age group may have to pay for the people that will retire. In most cases people can stop paid jobs at 67-68. Our pensionfunds belong to the biggest investors in the world-and they did suffer in their investments-but next to pensions we do have a social law-insurance in wich those who now work pay for those that can no longer work-for age, health reasons, study etc.

Our political system is far from perfect-but we have several main parties to choose from-a lot of smaller parties from left to right, religious, animal rights. 

Our police makes mistakes, sometimes turns out to be racist. There is a problem getting people in the police with a non-Dutch background. Also women may be under-represented. 

And yes there may be some problems with corruption, people getting/staying in jobs they did showed to be not good at. But it is not a major problem-we are not perfect-but on the [url]https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurabegleybloom/2020/03/20/ranked-20-happiest-countries-2020/#7f4684ce7850[/url] we do belong in the top 10. 

The picture I have for the US is that millennials there may feel they lost their future-no job security, housing in major cities even a bigger problem than in NL. Healthcare, study often expensive. And elections being stolen by white men over 70 that show sexism, racism-for both "parties" that may have lost touch with a lot of young people. 

The corona-crisis made things worse fast. And politics seem to fail-no testing, limited care. The millennials see Covid 19 often as a problem for older folks-their (grand) parents-but they care for them-would like to defend them. 

The political tensions were rising, racist tensions were there all the time-with people of color now also more often getting Covid19 and die than white people. 

The latest US presidential election in itself created an explosive mix. That mix got activated by Covid19 exploded by a white policeman-unfit for his job-again killing a person for no good reason. This police murder was only a trigger-the explosives were already there. 

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/05/young-white-men-abuse-george-floyd-protests-for-violence-and-looting.html[/url] On top of the "generation gap" in the US there are also armed militia. Some of them using the riots for their own goals. You have all kind of armed gangs-"good" police had a hard job controling them. (And on top of that the "story" decades old-the CIA is the main global drug gang-using drugs to pay for operations-without any political control-a state in the state, state/tax funded maffia. DJ-Let me be clear to fight organized crime with roots all the way to top positions you need a state-run police force being able to deal with this form of "criminal societies"-there are global "criminal states" operating without borders-with billions of $ or €-taking over legal companies.) 

The present US "situation" is extreme-one may find something like this in Brazil. [url]https://www.worldometers.info/world-population/us-population/[/url] The US has a relative young population for a western country. When you look at income inequality, public healthcare, infrastructure, crime the US looks like a "very rich third world country". 

To quote Peak Prosperity "it does not have to be that way". (Of course PP is one of many also reporting the FED buying up stocks to keep the rich rich. )

The outlook for the US-in my opinion-is bad. Political, economic, social reforms are needed-but the two main political "parties" represent those that benefit from status quo-not change. Militarizing the police, using the National Guard, Army may make things escalate even further. 

A "second wave" of Covid19 in the US is on its way-increasing tensions, inequality even further. The explosive mix will most likely become even more explosive. 

Burning down shops does not help-but when you protest and politics does not listen-to a very wide group of the population (that voted first Obama for change, then Trump for change-each time feeling betrayed) you may find a "motor" for lasting unrest.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 12:06am

Good analysis from Australia; the US being in a crisis since sept-11 2001, Obama 'black" president but not president for "black" people. [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mm5xLiZvFJM[/url] 

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/its-setup-mysteriously-staged-bricks-appear-throughout-major-protest-cities[/url] ???

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/spains-socialist-pm-pushes-another-2-week-lockdown-extension-global-covid-19-cases[/url], [url]https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/usa/california/[/url] a.o. in California sharp increase in cases.

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/were-all-suspects-now-look-inside-nsas-new-contact-chaining-tool[/url] DJ-Using mega data you can profile someones actions. This data-meant to warn for virus-contacts-can now be used to look for people involved in riots. 

-[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/here-stunning-chart-blows-all-modern-central-banking[/url] negative interest rates, printing money is meant to make people invest, buy products, keep the economy going-when you check reality-it does the opposite-people save more for retirement etc. QE etc is making inequality stronger, destroys the economy-but there seems to be no way out (??? DJ-Government spending on housing, basic income, care, infrastructure-comes on top of an already extreme debt.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 5:04pm

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/national-guard-troops-deployed-white-house-trump-calls/story?id=7100415


Trump says he is mobilizing 'heavily armed' military to stop protests


In a dramatic escalation of a national crisis, National Guard troops were deployed near the White House Monday evening hours after President Donald Trump said he wanted a military show of force against violent protests gripping the country.

Shortly after, Trump came to the White House Rose Garden to call himself the "law and order" president, saying "domestic terrorism" was to blame for the unrest.


"As we speak, I am dispatching thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers, military personnel, and law enforcement officers to stop the rioting, looting, vandalism, assaults, and the wanton destruction of property," he said. "We will end it now."

He said he may invoke the 1807 Insurrection Act, which permits a president to deploy military inside the U.S. to deal with civil disorder.

Several truckloads of DC National Guard troops had arrived near Lafayette Park.

A U.S. official said that active duty Army military police units from Fort Bragg, North Carolina, were preparing to be on standby in the Washington, D.C. area Monday night after three days of violent protests.

The National Guard troops are going to be protecting national monuments, the White House, property, and infrastructure, the official said.

He said at another point: "It is a war in a certain sense and we're gonna end it fast.”

In a surprising statement, the president told the governors he is putting Joint Chiefs Chairman Milley, his top military adviser, “in charge” of the response to the domestic protests. The president did not explain what he meant by putting Milley “in charge.”


"We're going to clamp down very strongly," he said, later adding, "We're going to do something that people haven't seen before." He did not elaborate.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 5:38pm

This is not going to go well. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Pixie Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 5:44pm

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Taxman100 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 5:47pm

He is using the playbook of dictators, inflict as much carnage and devastation as possible to force people back to their homes. I predict in the US this will result in more people coming out to protest. He is literally putting fuel on the fire. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 6:51pm

Funny you should say that.  Reuters confirmed a call between Trump and Putin today before the governor teleconference.  It only confirms they talked about G7... but who knows?


https://www.reuters.com/article/us-russia-usa-putin-trump/putin-and-trump-discussed-g7-oil-markets-in-phone-call-kremlin-idUSKBN238314

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 8:29pm

DJ-A further escalation of tensions will make the Covid19 pandemic only far more worse. If Trump believes "all opposition is terrorism" he may be moving the US into a civil war.....

It is good that there are examples of police in Flint Michigan-joining the demonstration because also "Black Lives Matter" (who can not agree with that ?). In Miami-Florida police kneeled and apologized for wrong doing by their collegues elsewere...

We just saw a big demonstration in Amsterdam-NL, outside the US "the world is watching". The G7-meetings itself often bring a lot of protests-I would not be surprised if it would become a "tele-meeting" or moved outside the US for 2020. 

(DJ-My impression is "the world" is getting fed up with Trump. His moving the US out of all international treaties he did not sign (from the Iran-deal to the WHO-during a pandemic) is "not welcome". Blaming China for his own inaction in this pandemic-while the third world is getting killed by it-may be the last push putting the US outside the international community.)

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote EdwinSm, Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 10:51pm

My general concern for any pandemic is that it will lead to some sort of civil unraveling. The latter I was afraid could cause more deaths and suffering than the illness itself.  [<-- I was more afraid of human over reaction being the 'slate-wiper' than an actual disease.]  

My top guess was that the trigger for the civil unrest would have been over food shortages, but in the case of the USA it seems to have been the cold blooded murder by a policeman that caused race riots.  


Given the large number of people who have lost their jobs and the limited (by the standard of other western democracies) safety nets for the unemployed, I can see the temptation to go out to loot ("we have lost so much, let us take something back").   The trouble is that this leads to a downward spiral as businesses that are open are destroyed leading to more unemployment, and more shortage of goods, and more poverty, and another round of rioting etc.    

The downward spiral is also being encouraged by the White House in suggesting counter action that seems designed to inflame the whole situation.  

I pray that somehow this spiral intent on unraveling American society can be halted before it is too late. But with the high unemployment and frustration that the SARS-Cov2 virus has cause, I am afraid that putting the breaks on will be much harder than at normal times.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote CRS, DrPH Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 01 2020 at 11:19pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

DJ-A further escalation of tensions will make the Covid19 pandemic only far more worse. If Trump believes "all opposition is terrorism" he may be moving the US into a civil war.....

Indeed, that is the aim of at least some of the participants in this unrest over here, DJ! 

There are far right groups agitating for a massive civil war that involves elements of white on black/brown race war, insurrection of the US Constitution and other stuff.  The code word for these types is "boogaloo," please see this:

https://www.adl.org/blog/the-boogaloo-extremists-new-slang-term-for-a-coming-civil-war

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 12:29am

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/06/its-true-.html[/url];

I think this relevant to how fractured the discourse is. it's a repost from my litter watering hole.

I know it’s going to be difficult to accept what I’m about to say because people get very invested in their chosen narratives, but it’s important that you at least be exposed to the notion that it’s all true.

It’s true that people engaged in peaceful protests.
It’s true that people engaged in lawless looting.
It’s true that provocateurs have committed acts of vandalism and sometimes carry umbrellas.
It’s true that Antifa exists and that they don’t advocate gently placing flowers in the gaping hole of a long gun.
It’s true that some very messed up militia minded people call themselves Boogaloo Bois, wear Hawaiian shirts, and are showing up to add their brand of crazy to the mix.
It’s true looters come in all shades and sizes.
It’s true some desperate people are taking things they need.
It’s true some opportunistic people are taking things they want.
It’s true opportunistic government thugs suddenly shifted the Covid-19 rationale for using contract tracing to a catch-them-rioters rationale for using contract tracing.
It’s true the policy infrastructure for enacting martial law has been a long-term, bi-partisan project.
It’s true that now is the time to realize what’s at stake, but instead of acting collectively for our mutual benefit, the cognitive challenge of accepting that all these things can be true at the same time will keep us tied to one of these things to the exclusion of all the others.

It’s hard work, I know. But I have faith in you.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 1:36am

Originally posted by Taxman100 Taxman100 wrote:

He is using the playbook of dictators, inflict as much carnage and devastation as possible to force people back to their homes. I predict in the US this will result in more people coming out to protest. He is literally putting fuel on the fire. 

Been doing it from the start. 


Dictator's Playbook.

1, Silence the press                                            CHECK

2, Vaunt your brilliance and take all credit              CHECK

3, Fire/shoot all dissenters                                  CHECK

4, Suppress the masses                                      CHECK

5, Close borders                                                 CHECK

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 2:15am

sieg heil......mein furher......

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 2:40am

DJ-Trump his approach may be shocking for European leaders, it will further damage EU-US relations.

From Dutch press-MSM-often not critical; [url]https://www.gelderlander.nl/buitenland/president-trump-dreigt-het-leger-in-te-zetten-tegen-gewelddadige-protesten~ad1dba8e/[/url] (google translate);


Army deployment 

Trump said he has instructed governors of the United States to deploy military personnel from the National Guard. They should "dominate" the streets. If they don't, he threatens to send the national army. "If a city or state refuses to take the measures necessary to protect the lives and property of residents, I will send the US military and solve the problem quickly for them," Trump said. The army is already going to deploy military police in Washington. Trump spoke of "thousands and thousands of heavily armed soldiers, military personnel, and agents" to stop the riots. Several members of the city council were shocked. "Protesters are calling for an end to the violence by the police and the state, and the President is firing up on them by calling them terrorists and sending the army into our town to enforce the mayor's curfew. Councilor David Grosso wrote on Twitter. "I am your president of order and justice, and an ally of all peaceful protesters," said Trump, who rightly said they are "sick" from the death of George Floyd in Minneapolis, who was suffocated by agents. But just before the speech, Washington police used tear gas to force peaceful protesters to leave the White House gate so the president could walk to a damaged church nearby for a photo opportunity. Trump held up a Bible in front of boarded up St. John's Church and declared the US the "greatest country in the world." A fire was set on Sunday evening in the basement of the church. Bishop Mariann Edgar Budde of the Episcopalian Church couldn't believe what she saw and believes the church was abused, she told CNN. “The President used a Bible and one of my diocese's churches without permission as a background to a message that contradicts the teachings of Jesus and everything our churches stand for. I am deeply indignant. "

The park opposite the White House is being "swept clean" because Trump plans to visit St. Johns Episcopal Church, the "Church of the Presidents." © AFP

Long prison terms

Trump threatened long prison terms for the instigators of what he calls "terror." He specifically pointed to the aggressive anti-fascist movement, which he portrays as the main culprit. Supporters do occasionally show up at protests, but there is not much evidence for their part in the disturbances. In New York, the police accused anarchists. In Minnesota, the governor suspects that not the extreme left, but the extreme right is disturbing things with extra violence.

In his speech, the US president explicitly promised to protect the right to possession of weapons - but did not mention the right to free speech. Human rights organization Human Rights Watch is concerned about the situation in the US. "Rather than upholding freedom of expression, President Donald Trump threatens to deploy the military on American streets. His words do nothing to heal this nation, but open the door to more destruction and death, ”director Nicole Austen-Hillery said in a statement. She speaks of the "ultimate failure" of leadership.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 4:27am

The stakes are high for the U.S.  that's for sure.  I can't help but think the U.S. Military has been in the middle east for three decades trying to tamp down insurrection.  I'm not sure why anyone thinks it would work on domestic soil.  Just sayin'...

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https://www.commondreams.org/news/2020/06/02/aclu-demands-congressional-probe-politically-motivated-attack-peaceful-protest


ACLU Demands Congressional Probe Into 'Politically-Motivated' Attack on Peaceful Protest Outside Trump White House

"This appears to be grossly unjustified use of a dangerous chemical weapon on protesters and raises serious human rights concerns under international law," the civil liberties group said.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 7:45am

DJ-Some say the present US situation is worst since MLK murder in 1968-more and more it seems to develop beyond that...Trump threatening to put the US military against US citizens seems to have made things worse. 

From Zero Hedge [url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/tensions-erupt-nation-burns-following-trump-threats-military-force-against-protesters[/url];

Multiple Dead/Injured As Rioters Target Cops After Trump's Threat Of Military Force Fails To Deter 7th Night Of Violence

Summary:

  • President Trump threatens to deploy military

  • At least nine dead, +4,000 arrested, riots rage in 140 cities as riots rage for the seventh day 

  • National Guard deployed in 23 states

  • 40 cities to impose strict curfews 

*  *  * 

Update (1018ET):  Ahead of expected social unrest in Washington, D.C., on Tuesday afternoon/evening -- Peter Baker, the chief White House correspondent for The New York Times, has just tweeted a picture of what appears to be a new fence erected around the White House. 


New fencing has been erected at the north edge of Lafayette Square, adding to the sense of a fortress White House.


Update (0830ET): Last night saw the worst of the violence aimed at police officers with one dead, at least five shot, and at least four more run over by "protesters."

At least five U.S. police were hit by gunfire during violent protests over the death of a black man in police custody, police and media said, hours after President Donald Trump said he would deploy the military if unrest does not stop.

  • -One US Marshall killed in Las Vegas

  • -Four officers shot in St. Louis

  • -At least two officers run over in Buffalo, NY

  • -One NYPD officer run over in the Bronx

  • -Another run over in Greenwich Village

An emotional St Louis police commissioner, John Hayden, said about 200 protesters were “jumping up and down like crazy people”, looting and throwing fireworks and rocks at officers.


Hard to describe how rampant the looting was tonight in Midtown Manhattan and how lawless it was. Complete anarchy. Literally hundreds of stores up and down Broadway, Fifth Ave, Sixth Ave. Kids ruling the streets like it was a party.

President Trump on Monday evening threatened to activate federal troops if governors and city mayors did not act to suppress continuing social unrest across major metros over the killing of George Floyd. 

After the president spoke, the situation across the country rapidly deteriorated into the evening, as riots continued for the seventh straight day. 

Protests were organized in more than 200 cities. Many of the demonstrations began peacefully but turned violent by evening. About 140 cities saw riots, resulting in government officials in 40 metro areas to impose strict curfews. New York City issued its first curfew on Monday, which was the first time an official curfew was imposed in the city since 1943. (DJ !!!!!!!!!!)

At the moment, and growing by the day, 23 states and the District of Columbia have activated National Guard troops to support local law enforcement in restoring order. Customs and Border Protection flew their military surveillance drone on Monday afternoon, though our report didn't specify if it was monitoring unrest in any city. However, it appeared the drone was conducting a mock surveillance mission of a metro area. 

Here are some of the most important developments from the overnight: 

  • President Trump threatens to deploy military if states and cities don't squash social unrest
  • Washington, Baltimore and New York unrest continues to worsen 
  • Helicopters buzz protesters in downtown Washington, DC 
  • NYPD officer hit by a car in the Bronx
  • Las Vegas police officer shot during protests
  • Two officers hit by a car in Buffalo during protests 
  • Four St. Louis officers shot during protests
  • "This is how nations collapse": Fox News' Tucker Carlson slams Trump's response to protests
  • Pelosi, Schumer condemn President Trump for tear-gassing protesters outside White House
  • National Guard forces activated in 23 states and Washington, DC
  • 40 cities and Washington, DC, have imposed curfews
  • Looting intensifies in Manhattan
  • Protests worsen in Los Angeles and Oakland
We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 8:40am

This is increasingly looking like the start of civil war.  

The protests are well warranted, but the violence is not.  Most of that is probably not from 'real'  protesters, but people taking advantage of the chaos.  It is a 'great' opportunity for theft and revenge.  A few genuine protesters may think escalation a good idea, I believe most don't, but it only takes one bad apple to sour the barrel.  Sadly this is not going to help things.

Neither is Trump's stance.  Calling for more brutal control, when brutal control is the very reason for the protests, is not exactly smart.  The less said about the treatment of the peaceful protestors outside the White House last night, to get a photo op., is beyond my ability to describe.  Although I heard the bishop of the church in question was quite scathing of his behaviour.  Even Carrie Lamb pointed out this was excessive government control by violence.  She called him a hypocrite.  I have to agree.

I always prepped for a pandemic, but I never expected to see one.  Now people are talking of civil war the same way.  

This is awful!

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 9:21am

"This is awfull"!!!! Techno-I could not agree more, 

It is good clever people speak up now-how to get out of this crisis ? DJ-The way I see things-to put it very basic, simple; 2 things:

-The way you got into a problem will most likely tell you something of how to get out of that problem.

-Describing the problem often is describing the solution as well. 

A "civil war" in the US caused by people losing all faith in its institutions only will have one outcome. "The State" wins, and that is no solution !

[url]https://www.zerohedge.com/political/were-thick-it-now-what-happens-next[/url] ;

It’s with an extremely heavy heart that I sit down to write today’s post.

Although widespread civil unrest was easy to predict, it doesn’t make the situation any less sad and dangerous. We’re in the thick of it now, and how we respond will likely determine the direction of the country for decades to come.


If the combination of peaceful protesting, looting and violence witnessed across American cities over the past few days completely caught you off guard, you’re likely to come to the worst possible conclusion about what to do next. The knee-jerk response I’m already seeing from many is to crush the dissent by all means necessary, but that’s exactly how you give the imperial state and oligarchy more power. Power it will never relinquish.

What’s happening in America right now is what happens in a failed state.

The U.S. is a failed state. Now the imperial national security state is going to flex at home like never before.

I spent the last decade of my life trying to spread the word to avoid this, but here we are.


Good read,

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 10:15am

A small bit of perspective here.

The only reason Trump could bring military into D.C. is because technically D.C. is not a state, but a district of the U.S.  It does not have a national guard unit.

The insurrection act has only been enacted at a Governor's request.  It has never been enacted because a President thought it should be.  There are major constitutional issues if this happens.  Legally the Governors can decline U.S. Military action in their states.  


Lastly, the Civil War everyone is talking about would not be one side over the other. It would be a military coup deposing the current government. Military leaders understand this isn't about quelling civil discontent, they understand it would be a war against civilians. So if there IS a military coup, I doubt it would go the way Trump and Right Wing Extremists thinks it would go. I just can't see right wing extremists siding with the military because even they would have to realize the danger of such actions leading to a dictatorship. Besides, right wing extremists will be stunned at how many "liberals" own guns which is something Military leaders do understand. But then there's AFT's motto of: You can't fix stupid.

While I was watching video last night of military breaking up the D.C. protesters, I saw a lot of "deer in the headlight" faces on those in uniform.

 Do I think Trump will do it?  I hope not, but suspect sophomoric urge to satisfy some fantasy about playing soldier will win.  He's desperate to control the national narrative and his mental instability is becoming more and more apparent. If we've noticed, military leaders and the intelligence agencies have definitely noticed.  

June is going to be a very hard month for Trump, for a lot of reasons.  SCOTUS decisions pertaining to his taxes and the Mueller report are expected to be released in June.  


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Thorne! Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 11:23am

It appears to me that much of the rioting/looting/violence is artificial, organized, funded. By whom? Soros? Faction(s) of the US elite political class (left, right, both in on it)? International? There are a number of powerful people and factions who would further the decline of the U.S. Hegelian dialectic in action. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote WitchMisspelled Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 11:45am

My Antifa nephew would argue you to distraction, but I think you've pretty much covered it.  It's not one, it's not the other, it's everyone.  It may be pandemic driven, but something has changed here.  This isn't going to go away like the other deaths have.  Trump threatening to curtail civil liberties and bring in the military went a long way to fan the flames to prolong things.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote JellyMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 12:03pm

Trump was damned if he didn’t, and is damned for doing so. He said the right thing and it needs to be clamped down, instead of pussy footing around it. We are a country with laws , yet the left doesn’t want them enforced. It’s time to do so now. And you lefties make it sound like they’ll be using their guns. Not true either.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 12:32pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

A small bit of perspective here.

The only reason Trump could bring military into D.C. is because technically D.C. is not a state, but a district of the U.S.  It does not have a national guard unit.

The insurrection act has only been enacted at a Governor's request.  It has never been enacted because a President thought it should be.  There are major constitutional issues if this happens.  Legally the Governors can decline U.S. Military action in their states.  


Lastly, the Civil War everyone is talking about would not be one side over the other. It would be a military coup deposing the current government. Military leaders understand this isn't about quelling civil discontent, they understand it would be a war against civilians. So if there IS a military coup, I doubt it would go the way Trump and Right Wing Extremists thinks it would go. I just can't see right wing extremists siding with the military because even they would have to realize the danger of such actions leading to a dictatorship. Besides, right wing extremists will be stunned at how many "liberals" own guns which is something Military leaders do understand. But then there's AFT's motto of: You can't fix stupid.

While I was watching video last night of military breaking up the D.C. protesters, I saw a lot of "deer in the headlight" faces on those in uniform.

 Do I think Trump will do it?  I hope not, but suspect sophomoric urge to satisfy some fantasy about playing soldier will win.  He's desperate to control the national narrative and his mental instability is becoming more and more apparent. If we've noticed, military leaders and the intelligence agencies have definitely noticed.  

June is going to be a very hard month for Trump, for a lot of reasons.  SCOTUS decisions pertaining to his taxes and the Mueller report are expected to be released in June.  


Bit of actual facts here. Curious where do you come up with your statements as if they were actual facts?

 Yes the District of Columbia does have a national guard unit and a air national guard unit as well and has since Thomas Jefferson founded it in 1802. The President is the CIC of the NG of DC.

And the Insurrection Act of 1807 does not require the authority of the governors of the state and has been used at least 5 times in the past in fact without consent of the governor of the states in which federal troops have been used. In fact JFK used the act to end the Ole Miss riot of 1962 without consent.  Bush used the act in 1992 with consent to end the Rodney King riots. The act gives the President authority to quell civil disorder, insurrection and rebellion within the US using federal military assets. 

The President, by using the militia or the armed forces, or both, or by any other means, shall take such measures as he considers necessary to suppress, in a State, any insurrection, domestic violence, unlawful combination, or conspiracy, if it—

(1)
so hinders the execution of the laws of that State, and of the United States within the State, that any part or class of its people is deprived of a right, privilege, immunity, or protection named in the Constitution and secured by law, and the constituted authorities of that State are unable, fail, or refuse to protect that right, privilege, or immunity, or to give that protection; or
(2)
opposes or obstructs the execution of the laws of the United States or impedes the course of justice under those laws.
In any situation covered by clause (1), the State shall be considered to have denied the equal protection of the laws secured by the Constitution.


And your fanciful tale of a military coup is liberal wishful thinking on so many levels as is your "civil war" scenario, but then again it's kinda like your "facts". I fail to see how using the military to quell civil unrest to stop the looting and burning and restore law and order is escalating anything, when the governors have failed to provide their citizens with law and order.  No one is saying they can't protest, they are saying you can't riot and loot and burn shit down.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AandEM Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 12:33pm

What role does Steve Bannon play in fanning the flames?  It is reported that Trump has some advisors encouraging him to call for calm (Kushner) but that Steven Miller, who talks to Steve Bannon daily, is encouraging "a show of strength."  We have Bannon to thank for Brexit, and he doesn't even try to hide his alt-right ideology.  He is obsessed with "the Fourth Turning" and works to dismantle as many democratic institutions as possible.  He seems to be forgiven for his "Fire and Fury" quote and has been invited back into the fold. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 1:51pm

Originally posted by WitchMisspelled WitchMisspelled wrote:

The stakes are high for the U.S.  that's for sure.  I can't help but think the U.S. Military has been in the middle east for three decades trying to tamp down insurrection.  I'm not sure why anyone thinks it would work on domestic soil.  Just sayin'...

Absolutely ......

....WitchMisspelled

Where has force with force worked.....

Dont Forget

American is HATED  all the Middle East for the Invasions....etc

Islamic State and others 

would be pouring Fuel on the fires,

 and as I said in a previous post,

i'm waiting for the suicide bombers taking the field.....

Just saying.....


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 2:00pm

I suggest folks read 

"Long walk to freedom"

Nelson Mandela.....

And look what happend after the Sharkville Massacre......

"Spear of the Nation"

That's what happend......

End of..... Apartheid......

Eventually.......thankfully.....








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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 2:14pm




"I love the smell of tear gas,across the rose garden,smells like.....,smells like Victory son".....

https://youtu.be/sBksHaTQCbU

Pity about the result......





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 3:04pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=165&v=ItopNgRQiuY&feature=emb_logo


She's completely right. She is looking at the problem as a whole, not just one piece of the problem.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 4:10pm

Originally posted by JellyMama JellyMama wrote:

Trump was damned if he didn’t, and is damned for doing so. He said the right thing and it needs to be clamped down, instead of pussy footing around it. We are a country with laws , yet the left doesn’t want them enforced. It’s time to do so now. And you lefties make it sound like they’ll be using their guns. Not true either.

Where Trump went wrong was that he didn't stand up immediately and condemn those police officers for a racist murder. It's not as if there was no evidence, because it was filmed. If Trump had stood up straight away and said this would not be tolerated then things would have been different......perhaps. The trouble is Trump is a racist himself. No matter what he says to the contrary, he's a sexist and a racist. He says the right thing eventually but it's not believable. He can't say it with conviction because he doesn't believe it. He's all for the old (white) boys club and for maintaining the status quo, and thereby enabling him and his cronies to continue to make money.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 4:13pm

Techno, I think you're right about a civil war. I have a number of close relatives who live in the states, and they've always joked with me that a civil war would be over and done with in 15 minutes because there's a gun behind every blade of grass in America. I'm bloody glad I don't live there.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 4:18pm

In that great democratic state of Illinois with some of the strictest firearm laws in the nation, in the democrat bastion that is Chicago.

CHICAGO (CBS) — It was an incredible weekend of violence this past weekend for the City of Chicago.

Police said 92 people were shot and 27 were killed this past weekend alone.


https://chicago.cbslocal.com/2020/06/02/weekend-of-violent-unrest-brought-about-alarming-number-of-shootings-in-chicago-many-deadly/

https://graphics.suntimes.com/homicides/

She was right black lives only matter and get attention if they are killed by a cop or a white person.





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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 4:34pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by JellyMama JellyMama wrote:

Trump was damned if he didn’t, and is damned for doing so. He said the right thing and it needs to be clamped down, instead of pussy footing around it. We are a country with laws , yet the left doesn’t want them enforced. It’s time to do so now. And you lefties make it sound like they’ll be using their guns. Not true either.

Where Trump went wrong was that he didn't stand up immediately and condemn those police officers for a racist murder. It's not as if there was no evidence, because it was filmed. If Trump had stood up straight away and said this would not be tolerated then things would have been different......perhaps. The trouble is Trump is a racist himself. No matter what he says to the contrary, he's a sexist and a racist. He says the right thing eventually but it's not believable. He can't say it with conviction because he doesn't believe it. He's all for the old (white) boys club and for maintaining the status quo, and thereby enabling him and his cronies to continue to make money.

There is ZERO evidence that the murder of Floyd was racially motivated, it was excessive force by a police officer that resulted in a death. If you think that excessive force by police resulting in death only happens to blacks you'r delusional and extremely uniformed. Had there been one shred of evidence that it was racially motivated then he would have been charged with a hate crime as well. He wasn't as that wasn't the case.  

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Technophobe Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 4:48pm

I'm off to bed.  It's late here in the UK, it's so late it's getting early.  So I can't be bothered with the whole argument thing.  

One point though.  It all matters.  Every life.  Every lost opportunity, every trapped poverty stricken person, every person killed on the streets, by police or otherwise.  Every person without food, a home, adequate healthcare or expectation of justice.  Every one without hope of improvement of their lot.

'And every black person afraid to go out, for fear of the police.  Come to that, every white person staying home for the same reason.  

It should not matter what colour a person is.  Everyone should get a fair crack at life.  If the police kill 1 black man, that is one too many.  The actual numbers only make this worse.   They are not statistics, they are people.  'And yes they kill white people too.

People do not trust the police, with good reason.  They do not trust the justice system, for the same reason.  The cop who killed this unarmed man was only charged with murder after an irrefutable video emerged.  HE HAD DONE IT BEFORE!  THERE WAS NO ATTEMPT AT CENSURE THOSE TIMES.  HIS GOON SQUAD STILL WALK FREE THIS TIME.

Law and order work with the assistance and licence of the people, unless you are in a dictatorship.  The people have spoken, they are still speaking.  They are saying the police are just officially sanctioned buillies.  They are saying we should all be accepted as equal.  They say, even if it is unfair now, give us a promise things will improve.

Trump says, just bully them harder!  That is not the rule of law; that is opression and the words of a dictator.

How do you tell if a politician is lying?
His lips or pen are moving.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote JellyMama Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 5:46pm

Trump did speak out several times. On Friday, on Saturday but I guess you missed it. Can’t figure out how to post the link. I’m curious, what facts do you have that Trump is a racist, other than the news and other politicians calling him one?


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 10:33pm

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

There is ZERO evidence that the murder of Floyd was racially motivated, it was excessive force by a police officer that resulted in a death. If you think that excessive force by police resulting in death only happens to blacks you'r delusional and extremely uniformed. Had there been one shred of evidence that it was racially motivated then he would have been charged with a hate crime as well. He wasn't as that wasn't the case.  


I don't understand why you're taking every comment on here personally. You're seem to think it's your job to defend each and every thing about America and it's clouding your judgement over what's good or bad. Four white cops on one black man? He was essentially killed by pressure on his carotid artery. The question is would those 4 cops have reacted in the same way to a 46 year old white man? I very much doubt it. 

No one's attacking you personally AI. I hope you can see that. Surely even you can watch the video of George Floyds death and see that it was excessive. He was handcuffed and lying on his front. He was no threat to anyone. And still they killed him. Watch the video and see if you can swallow your patriotic pride and admit that an American did something wrong.


Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 11:01pm

DJ-After first blaming China for Covid19 (and they did make mistakes) now blame China for the US riots ? [url]https://halturnerradioshow.com/index.php/en/news-page/news-nation/bug-out-from-the-cities-now-today-covert-intel-riots-and-looting-are-planned-insurrection-being-steered-by-democrat-elected-officials-and-democrat-party-leaders-in-several-states-funded-by-the-usual-suspects-weapons-being-shipped-in-by-china-for-rioters[/url] =insane !

[url]https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/06/trump-calls-up-military-for-law-and-order-stunt.html[/url] ;

Replacing the police with the military will only escalate the situation. Violence begets violence. But creating more 'resistance' may well be Trump's plan.

Secretary of State Mike Pompeo is today meeting with "Tiananmen Square survivors". He will probably ask how China managed to suppress that U.S. sponsored insurgency. Can Trump learn from it? Is a Tiananmen like moment what Trump wants to happen to rally his base? Or is it all just a head fake that will be canceled in time?

Has someone in the White House considered how much damage these bizarre developments do to U.S. soft power and its foreign policy? U.S. adversaries point out the hypocrisy of U.S. behavior at home and its rhetoric against them. U.S. allies just cringe.

An Australian TV crew was punched by police live on air. The Australian Prime Minister called for an investigation. A crew of the German government financed DW News was attacked twice by police plus threatened with arrest. This caused the German Foreign Minister to speak out against targeting journalists.

These U.S. 'allies' have to explain their population why they still succumb to U.S. policies. That part of their job is getting harder and harder. 

If Trump sends in the military it will become impossible.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AI Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 02 2020 at 11:47pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

There is ZERO evidence that the murder of Floyd was racially motivated, it was excessive force by a police officer that resulted in a death. If you think that excessive force by police resulting in death only happens to blacks you'r delusional and extremely uniformed. Had there been one shred of evidence that it was racially motivated then he would have been charged with a hate crime as well. He wasn't as that wasn't the case.  


I don't understand why you're taking every comment on here personally. You're seem to think it's your job to defend each and every thing about America and it's clouding your judgement over what's good or bad. Four white cops on one black man? He was essentially killed by pressure on his carotid artery. The question is would those 4 cops have reacted in the same way to a 46 year old white man? I very much doubt it. 

No one's attacking you personally AI. I hope you can see that. Surely even you can watch the video of George Floyds death and see that it was excessive. He was handcuffed and lying on his front. He was no threat to anyone. And still they killed him. Watch the video and see if you can swallow your patriotic pride and admit that an American did something wrong.

Or perhaps you agree with their actions. That's something we haven't considered yet................

I didn't take it personally I took it as a statement of yours issued as fact that was without factual basis. Perhaps you have a problem with facts. You certainly don't have a problem stating your opinion and using non factual information as a basis for your derogatory opinions of the US. I clearly stated Floyds death looked like excessive police force and I have stated before it was wrong. 

You know I don't  pretend to know much about New Zealand politics, society, the criminal system or the problems there so I don't speak to it or criticize it. But that's what you should do when you are uninformed and without actual first hand experience or knowledge on subject matter.  Perhaps your time would be best spent considering that when continually negatively commenting on the US. Something to consider............

Nice try at character assassination but it's as weak as your facts are. And who is we? Do you presume to speak for everyone?

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote Usk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2020 at 12:51am

  Amen AI. I am with you on this.  Also can we move this thread to political?

What is going on right now is the sad commentary on what humanity has become  Regardless of color of skin country of birth or moral values. The months of self isolation and concern for safety of oneself and others to an enemy we can not see has resulted in this powder keg release of emotions. The Floyd event was just the spark that set it off. But it could have been anything.  In general most people are protesting peacefully and many in the crowds now are squashing any one who starts something more. The message needs to prevail here. All lives matter.   Everyone who lives in a free  and I mean truly free society has the right and responsibility
to speak up and find and organize others with like idealogy.  Unless you live this life in a country where this is the norm you can not read enough nor watch enough TV to truly understand what this freedom is like. Trump is right about the US RULE of Law being a foundational doctrine where ALL are entitled to being protected.   We can not have the freedoms we love so dearly without it.    We also can not stand by as a people and watch others threaten our freedom of free speech and right to assemble peacefully to protest an injustice.  It is the smell of freedom let the church bells ring loud and far let the world hear us. 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2020 at 1:24am

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

Originally posted by AI AI wrote:

There is ZERO evidence that the murder of Floyd was racially motivated, it was excessive force by a police officer that resulted in a death. If you think that excessive force by police resulting in death only happens to blacks you'r delusional and extremely uniformed. Had there been one shred of evidence that it was racially motivated then he would have been charged with a hate crime as well. He wasn't as that wasn't the case.  


I don't understand why you're taking every comment on here personally. You're seem to think it's your job to defend each and every thing about America and it's clouding your judgement over what's good or bad. Four white cops on one black man? He was essentially killed by pressure on his carotid artery. The question is would those 4 cops have reacted in the same way to a 46 year old white man? I very much doubt it. 

No one's attacking you personally AI. I hope you can see that. Surely even you can watch the video of George Floyds death and see that it was excessive. He was handcuffed and lying on his front. He was no threat to anyone. And still they killed him. Watch the video and see if you can swallow your patriotic pride and admit that an American did something wrong.

Or perhaps you agree with their actions. That's something we haven't considered yet................

I didn't take it personally I took it as a statement of yours issued as fact that was without factual basis. Perhaps you have a problem with facts. You certainly don't have a problem stating your opinion and using non factual information as a basis for your derogatory opinions of the US. I clearly stated Floyds death looked like excessive police force and I have stated before it was wrong. 

You know I don't  pretend to know much about New Zealand politics, society, the criminal system or the problems there so I don't speak to it or criticize it. But that's what you should do when you are uninformed and without actual first hand experience or knowledge on subject matter.  Perhaps your time would be best spent considering that when continually negatively commenting on the US. Something to consider............

Nice try at character assassination but it's as weak as your facts are. And who is we? Do you presume to speak for everyone?

You are a funny little man aren't you? It's not just my comments you have a little tantrum over, it's everyones. You sound like a boomer, and I bet you are one. A white one.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote carbon20 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2020 at 2:20am






i suppose shooting an unarmed jogger is not Racist either!!!!?......

"strange fruit on that poplar tree".......

Racism is ingrained in America.......

My cousin lives in Wisconsin (expat) she says she can't understand why Americans ,Who say they are so  religious

Are so RACIST

So I'll ask you Americans 

Why does it seem that White Americans (some of)are so 

anti Black.....

After all it was whitey that took them all there.....and that was only because the Irish slaves couldn't stand the heat on them plantations......

You might need to fact check that, about the Irish, not Black peoples.....


Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.🖖

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ksc Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 03 2020 at 2:50am

Probably for the same reasons Australians are considered some of the most racist people in the world... 

https://listovative.com/top-12-most-racist-countries-in-the-world/

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/10/australia-is-deplorably-racist-as-people-of-colour-are-reminded-when-they-speak-up

Australia is deplorably racist. It was founded on a racist document and hasn’t improved.

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