What about Prisons?

I am brand new to posting, but have been watching for a while. 

I have worked in correctional institutions for more than 20 years, (Now retired) and have seen how viral scares can affect, and/or, not to put not to fine a point on it, disable the medical "Professionals" that work within the state ">I remember the Hanta virus scare with the mice and rats, which resulted in a declaration that it was against the rules to have mice or rats as pets, (Already against the rules anyway) subject to administrative penalties. However there was no information provided about the virus, or what to look for as to symptoms, or what to do if you were to find a dead mouse or rat, except to "Don’t touch it". I do not recall any HazMat procedure put into place to deal with the issue, even though it is called for by state law.

Then there was T.B. This was worse, and did lead to a number of infections due to the ventilation system of the prison. In each building there are anywhere from 400 to 600 cells. All ventilation from that building is shared among the cells, as well as all common areas. If any one person is infected with an airborne virus, it can be spread through the ventilation system to every person in the building, including the guards and maintenance staff.

> Bottom line is that the state spent millions on anti-rooms and upgrading the prison hospital to deal with the TB infections, and still there was no talk of the source of transmission, the prison ventilation system.

, look to the prison system first. This is the most concentrated group of people in the state. And to top it off, there are at least 1200 people a day that work at the prison I worked at, and they come into the prison exposed to anything there, and then leave and go home again thinking nothing of it.

And on top of all of this, one of the worst pests at the place is, (You guessed it!) SEAGULLS! They are so bad that prisoners are punished if they are caught feeding them!

>This does not even consider the vendors, truck drivers, bus drivers who transport the parolees out of the prison every day, or all of the visitors who come to visit the prisoners, and then return to their communities.

    
    
    
    
    

It's starting to look like this will be a state/county handled issue. I know I haven't seen any planning at the county level for schools. I would imagine this will be one of the top issues. I am sure there is a plan being developed. How good and when I don't know.

cv1632 wrote: New Zealand is another country and as tempting as it may be, our nation is still controlled by the constitution of the and the laws of each individual state.

I mentioned the article from New Zealand, because the W.H.O. has adopted the New Zealand Pandemic Plan, a portion of which is posted elsewhere. Part of the pandemic plan is to monitor the Internet, possibly sites like this. The W.H.O. will have some influence over how individual nations respond.

There are changes taking place in my country and yours as they relate to the powers of government in the event of a pandemic.
    
The WHO has requested any references to masks being used by the public be dropped from any public communications. I received the following document a few days before they made the announcement about more than one H5N1 virus.

I don't have the answers, just a lot of questions.


-------

Subject: OccHygPro: WHO Pandemic RR&C protocol Mar 17
draft

This evening, WHO posted the latest iteration of its
Rapid Response and Containment protocol resulting from
the deliberations at the Global Technical Meeting, Mar
6-8.

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/guidelines/draftprotocol2006_03_17/en/index.html

Progress includes:

- clarification that the considerations could apply
not only to H5N1, but also to other viruses with
pandemic potential

- assignment of responsibility for national plans to
"be updated frequently to take account of
international developments"

- elimination of any reference to "masks".

The matter of PPE is deferred to the parallel document
Avian influenza ... WHO interim infection control
guideline for health care facilities Revised 9
February 2006

http://www.who.int/csr/disease/avian_influenza/guidelines/infectioncontrol1/en/index.html
.

Further work is in order.

In keeping with the 2nd bullet above, you may want to
reconcile your corporate / municipal /
provincial-territorial plan with the latest WHO
guidelines; hopefully, our national authorities will
be similarly diligent.

Regards,

xxxxxxx
____________________________
xxxx.xxxx MEng,PhD,CIH,ROH
Environmental Hygienist / Toxicologist

    
    
    
    
    
    
    

cv1632 wrote: New Zealand is another country and as tempting as it may be, our nation is still controlled by the constitution of the and the laws of each individual state.

Rick wrote: I mentioned the article from New Zealand, because the W.H.O. has adopted the New Zealand Pandemic Plan, a portion of which is posted elsewhere. Part of the pandemic plan is to monitor the Internet, possibly sites like this. The W.H.O. will have some influence over how individual nations respond. The WHO has requested any references to masks being used by the public be dropped from any public communications.

Rick,

You believe that the WHO will have influence over how nations respond to a pandemic? And it is possible to keep the criminals locked up? I can't imagine hardened criminals let loose on society. jmho.
    
       
    

Not only the virus to contend with now the felons as well.

This situation is going to bring out the worst in, so many how many people have at least one person they haven't bothered to share information with

I think I read somewhere that the Gov. is passing laws that would permit enforced quarentine of citizens to their homes. Did anyone else read this and would this somehow apply to prisoners and guards?

Fiddler, I do not believe that God considers any of us "Disposable", even those in our prisons, no matter what their crime.

JaxMax wrote: I have been monitoring the government Pandemic websites in Australia and New Zealand. I was particularly interested in their immediate denouncement of Sec. Leavitt's "tuna fish" speech. Do we have members from New Zealand or Australia? If so, I would be interested in an eyewitness direct report of preparation status since you are so much closer to Indonesia.

    

They were not the only ones that responded the same way to Leavitt's tuna fish recipe.
    

Fiddler, God made man. If you read the bible carefully, you will find that SIN is responsible for the current state of men. This was never Gods plan for us, SIN changed that. However, there is also a plan to fix it. Who knows, this might be part of it.

Rick, do you or anyone else have any ideas on WHY THE WHO SHOULD BE ASKING THAT MENTION OF MASKS BEING WORN BY THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE KEPT OUT OF COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE PUBLIC?????  This really alarms me.

" do you or anyone else have any ideas on WHY THE WHO SHOULD BE ASKING THAT MENTION OF MASKS BEING WORN BY THE PUBLIC SHOULD BE KEPT OUT OF COMMUNICATIONS WITH THE PUBLIC????? This really alarms me."
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I hate to sound cynical, but I agree, its hard to argue against 30 Billion reasons.
    

My point here is simple, basic PLANNING can avoid so much pain!  Full time professional people run prisons, and at some point should really have some sort of emergency plan! Just a memo: "Guards, in the event of everyone getting ready to abandon their posts because the water is rising or the flu is coming, unlock the doors for everyone except rapists, armed robbers and murderers. "  Even better: "And in the drawer marked FINIS contains black pills you can distribute to each remaining inmates for them to use to end their suffering when they choose."  In this way, Joey, doing 2 weeks for a DUI, Bob, in for an ounce of pot, etc. get to have a chance.  The ones remaining can choose to end their suffering.  And the world is one bit less crazy for the guards as well as the inmates.

I have known people who have been in prison in washington and have read report and sean shows on tv about the prison system in this state. Punishment is the idea in this state, and they stress that point as much as posible. The lack of or neglect of proper health care in DOC is alrady present and If there is an out brake I suspect there will be a lock down due to the risk of riots and security issues. DOC will protect the public first that is there jobs. If that means people will die in prison so be it, whats new people die in prison all the time and you don't here about it on the news. Quaranteen an area that shares the air supply? You have got to be kidding, Lock down facility and they will give you the vacine through the little hole in the door when it comes. LOL Don't like it send a kite to sick call they bring you to the doctor, Not....
    
    

We ALL have to remember when we speak of prisoners  we have various types of prisoners . Rapists murders drug dealer kidnappers . As well as drunk drivers  ,white collar crimes ,petty theft ,pot heads  , failure to pay court imposed fines ,breaking probation  ( you can be on probation for a multitude of offenses from major to minor  )  shop lifting , graffiti writing Hot Checks and the list goes on and on for lesser offenses .  Bringing alcohol onto some  Indian reservation , Indian or not ,can be charged as bootlegging 2- 15 years .  Possession of  marijuana in some jurisdictions a stinking joint = 6months -2 years in jail .  Women some states you can hit the slammer for slapping  your obnoxious husband even if he deserved it . The old way of  probation community service and fines is being replaced with straight jail time . We need to keep the jails for  real bad people not the so so minor crimes . Hell even Martha Stewart has been there .

If  this hit’s the jails and prisons just letting them sit there could be sentencing a hot check writer to a death sentence  .  Albeit  some defiantly deserve the death sentence but there are scores there who don’t .

 99.99 % of these people who are in jail  have some one who loves them .  How would you feel having a relative  sentenced to jail for 18 months for second driving drunk offence and the bird flu hit’s the jail , everyone screams don’t let them out they  are a menace to society .  You have a  50 - 60 % chance of loosing them ! The 18 months is now converted to a death sentence .

They need to find a equable way of suspending , commuting or in custody of parent of relative till this crap is over .

I am sorry I have had a relative in jail over minor offence and I am quite repulsed by the  attitude people have about ALL prisoners and  ALL felons .

My 2 cents now crawling back to my hole  prepping some more and grumbling some more : ))

Surely it is not beyond the wit of Man to come up with a workable solution to this problem?

I don't know what the answer is, but thank goodness.I am nto the one or entity that has to come up with a solution.  In Washington State we do have a unique situation, however.  We have MsNEAL Island.  It is an Island set aside for "released" sex offenders who are too dangerous to return to be among society.  So, the state sends them to live on this Island.  It's still jail..anyway you want to look at it.  There are still people of authority there, you cannot leave the island, there are still rules, etc.  But they live in a room/or dorm like situation, instead of a cell. 

Wow.  Exactly, what does that mean though?  That the US has more criminals?  Caughts more of the criminals and puts them in prison?  Or we just put more people in jail, over all? 

Capricornmonke: It means a great deal, but in the strict context of a potential pandemic, it MAY mean that the U.S.A. has more scope to release at least some of it's prison population.

I hope some people here who think prisoners should just be abandoned locked up to starve and die,  keep in mind that, if dire emergency hits, good preppers have some chance of ending up in jail for "hoarding supplies" and not turning their supplies over to the common good under emergency orders, martial law, etc., that could be proclaimed as the pandemic approaches.  I am certain the majority of citizens (who aren't ging to prepare, probably not even tuna fish and powdered milk) will support this action completely.

Capricorn, it has been my experience that there are a great many prisoners who could, in my opinion, be safely released back into society. This would include, again in my opinion, many doing life in prison and particularly many of our "3 Strikes" cases.

Many prisoners doing life had no previous criminal history, no history of violence while incarcerated and most involve murder. However a great many of them were crimes either of passion or stupidity, and I have known many of them that I believe were truly remorseful for their crimes. (Again, in my opinion)

I say this with the caveat that I believe many could be released safely UNDER NORMAL CIRCUMSTANCES. In a situation where there were no support services for them, or being released into a society in complete disarray, they would probably follow the survival skills that helped them get by while in prison.

This also assumes that any prisoners released during a pandemic situation would have somewhere to go. If they have no where to go, then what?

Just some thoughts. There is no easy or sanitary answer. (In my opinion)

Welcome NZ er...Canada here and wow we love to hear your in put....glad to hear there is prepping going on over there also....

I guess we go to the" What They Dont Know Won't Hurt Us"