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What happened to the vaxx groupies on AFT?

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A-I View Drop Down
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    Posted: July 19 2022 at 8:01pm

Oh what a difference a year makes.  

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Dutch Josh View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2022 at 8:52pm

A-I, I find it very sad this forum did get so de-railed....Good discussion is more then needed in complex times...Your words show lack of respect for other views...Are you happy this forum-like many others-collapsed ?

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2022 at 9:10pm

Josh, that's a bit harsh. On one hand I'm with AI because of the line in the sand that they drew, but I'm also with you that it's a pity that they left.

I'm a big fan of Dale Carnegie and he talks about always giving someone a way out of an argument and i'm afraid our pro vaxxers who were so overly aggressive to anyone who even dared question the safety of these rushed through jabs, didn't give themselves any wriggle room. They stated that anyone not having the vaccine was an anti vaxxer (which simply isn't true), were the devil, were irresponsible and a thousand other things. They didn't give themselves any room for discussion or any room to climb down off that high horse and so, when the news started leaking out that the vaccines weren't doing what they promised then they felt they had no choice but to disappear. 

It's sad because there were some good discussions on here and each one of them brought something to the table. But as they say, pride comes before a fall, and as Dale Carnegie says people can't deal with their beliefs being disproven to them. It takes a big man to say I was wrong. Not everyone can do that. 

I guess that there are still some of them out there thinking that they are still right and they are still burying their heads in the sand about the vaccine injuries and the failure of the jabs to stop transmission or infection. Let's face it, we were all told a pack of lies to get us to take the jabs, and one by one those lies have been uncovered. 

Here in NZ, the covid levels are so high right now as Covid sweeps through the vaccinated, and yet we were told plainly and simply that if you got jabbed you wouldn't get covid. Then it changed to well you'll get it but only mildly. Now vaccinated people are dying in hospital. 

I also wonder if any of the old members who left in a huff, are actually dead now.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2022 at 9:14pm

Originally posted by Dutch Josh Dutch Josh wrote:

A-I, I find it very sad this forum did get so de-railed....Good discussion is more then needed in complex times...Your words show lack of respect for other views...Are you happy this forum-like many others-collapsed ?

I find it hilarious. It's their own rigidity that did them in, it was a case of hive mentality collapse. They just couldn't  stand to have anyone thinking anything not hive approved.  They simply were ruled by fear and the vaxx was their salvation from that fear as sold to them by the government and big pharma.  It was anyway until the lipstick wore off that pig.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 19 2022 at 9:27pm

I do miss Carbon though. He was fun. Oh what fun we'd be having discussing the failure that is Biden.


Substitute the word slatewiper for the word end and that is Carbon. LOL

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2022 at 1:27am

With all respect, maybe I could consider myself a "vaxx groupy"....

In january 2020 we should have stopped CoVid via NPI, stop travel...lockdowns even with limited spread. It did work with SARS-1 in 2003...I am not convinced SARS-2 itself was that much worse...the main reason it did get a pandemic is lack of stopping the spread...

We did see that inaction over and over...free travel for all sorts of variants...now even monkeypox is "unstoppable"...please !

Under trump warpspeed did see mRNA-vaccines, AstraZeneca also did see high speed development...Sputnik-V, Chinese vaccines were stopped in the west for political reasons...

A major problem -in my view- and I may be very wrong !- is "profits are #1 priority"....

Vaccines did show up last year-massive spread in rich countries...still on a global scale 20% (?) of the population did get vaccinated...I do think there were more side effects than did get reported...maybe some vaccines may show longer term healthissues...like other medical interventions...no 100% guarantee..

Besides limited vaccines, the main reason we are in this worst-ever (my view) pandemic is lack of NPI...Non Pharma Intervention...

It did not help biden claimed vaccinated people did not need masks any longer...The idea that vaccines would end this pandemic-without NPI- was a very big mistake...

I hope nasal vaccines, long term NPI (stop most air travel, mass events) will be able to get us out of the worsening crisis...

So AI to answer your question; this "vaxx groupy" is still around ! 

You are totally welcome to disagree on vaccines...

On this forum-again-maybe moderating may have been able to limit the damage...but as far as I did see moderators did more then their best...

It is not "who started" but "how to go on"....we are all supposed to be adults !

Again I would like to see this forum much more active...not most of it "me" writing in the hope of making/getting some sense...

If any (former) member was able to prevent this pandemic (s)he was most likely in the wrong spot...should be taking over the WHO, (E)CDC, etc...I think we all tried to make some sense...non of us claimed to have all the wisdom...


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2022 at 2:03pm

Josh you're totally right about money being the number one factor. 

I'd also like to see this forum become more active. As far as vaccine discussion goes, I think this forum is reflecting life. So many people have taken a hard and fast stand on vaccines and it's split friendships, families and work colleagues.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2022 at 2:04pm

Originally posted by A-I A-I wrote:

It's their own rigidity that did them in, it was a case of hive mentality collapse. They just couldn't  stand to have anyone thinking anything not hive approved.  They simply were ruled by fear and the vaxx was their salvation from that fear as sold to them by the government and big pharma.  It was anyway until the lipstick wore off that pig.

You said it much more succinctly than me. Spot on!

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: July 20 2022 at 9:19pm

The basic idea of a forum-a marketplace-is to have different opinions, to see different corners on all kind of issues....

It is supposed to be a balancing act between respectfull disagreeing and making your own point....

"what happened to AFT"? Well it more or less ended...And I regret that ! 

For now most of the "foruming" on this site could be done by me....

An "old fool on the NL-hill" hoping to see more company to disagree with....

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KiwiMum Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 07 2022 at 6:29pm

I'm sorry but in trying to delete a very aggressive post from Honeybee2, I have accidentally deleted them. I'm trying to find a way to reinstate their account but I apologise for the error. My mistake.

Those who got it wrong, for whatever reason, may feel defensive and retrench into a position that doesn’t accord with the facts.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 08 2022 at 3:39pm

Originally posted by KiwiMum KiwiMum wrote:

I'm sorry but in trying to delete a very aggressive post from Honeybee2, I have accidentally deleted them. I'm trying to find a way to reinstate their account but I apologise for the error. My mistake.

One of these huh.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (1) Thanks(1)   Quote roni3470 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 3:34pm

And here in lies the problem - a post like this.  Not necessary at all.  Self-righteousness abound.  This site was great prior to 2020!

NOW is the Season to Know

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote A-I Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 4:40pm

Originally posted by roni3470 roni3470 wrote:

And here in lies the problem - a post like this.  Not necessary at all.  Self-righteousness abound.  This site was great prior to 2020!

 And then the pandemic hit. Curious where were you with your indignation when certain people called for the unvaxxed to be put in camps among other things??? Hell for that matter where was everyone else???? So spare me your selective outrage. What the pandemic and the vaxx did was show everyone's true colors and character or more specifically lack thereof. The pandemic and vaxx were an excellent showcase of the psychological aspects and mentalities people develop or might develop when faced with stress and fear in a possible future virulent pandemic and what they are capable of and what they will just go along with silently. And I can not but be reminded of this quote.

"Facts don't care about your feelings" I'M A UNVAXXED DEVIL so kiss my rebel ass.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Dutch Josh Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 09 2022 at 8:31pm

Maybe a bit of nuance...

In this pandemic people are/should be learning every day...

Mandatory vaccination "goes far"...Maybe Health Care Workers, others with lots of social contacts (police) could be required to get vaccinated...I am glad I do not have to make such choices...

STOP THE SPREAD-in my idea-should be the basic Npn Pharma Intervention; YES that would limit travel, mass meetings-for a long time...

That is my point of view, an opinion-based on how we did deal with diseases in the past...

Of course that past and pandemics also had many dark sides; blaming some groups for (spreading of) diseases was just one of them...bizarre cures another...

In my opinion the other side of freedom is responsibility...

I regret this forum is "almost over"...I write here to make up my mind. NOT to convince others...share my opinions but also willing to learn...

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
~Albert Einstein
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