Tracking the next pandemic: Avian Flu Talk |
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Commonground
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Posted: May 19 2006 at 3:45am |
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http://www.metrotvnews.com/berita.asp?id=16929
Tim WHO failed to visit the PATIENT's VILLAGE BIRD FLU 18/05/2006 21:12 - the Indonesian Archipelago/Great Nine News Three members the Health Body of the World. (Metro the TV) Metrotvnews.com, the Karo Land: three people of the team of the Health Body of the World (WHO) today failed to visit the village of six positive patients bird flu in the Karo Land Regency, North Sumatra, on Thursday (18/5). The team's three doctors of the handling of this WHO bird flu visited the Land Regency Karo on Thursday morning by being accompanied by the official of the North Sumatran Health of the Service. However, their visit was cancelled because of being refused by the local community Because of being refused, the WHO team changed his plan by visiting the Kabanjahe Public Hospital. This the hospital that the first time treated the eight patients suspect bird flu. Tim WHO co-operated with the Department of the Health to find the cause of the emergence of the bird flu virus in the Karo Land Regency. WHO admitted that results of the laboratory test against blood, the waste and the poultry saliva as well as the land in the Simbelang Fortification Village were not found by the existence of the virus avian influenza. () |
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Commonground
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"WHO admitted that results of the laboratory test against blood, the waste and the poultry saliva as well as the land in the Simbelang Fortification Village were not found by the existence of the virus avian influenza."
This doesn't make sense.....This is from WHO's Update in the Indonesia thread: "The Ministry of Health in Indonesia has confirmed an additional seven cases of human infection with the H5N1 avian influenza virus. Six of the cases were fatal." This is from the Bloomberg Report in the Indonesia thread: "Ten of 11 pigs in the district where the infected people lived were found to have avian flu antibodies in their blood, Apriantono told reporters in Jakarta today." |
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So much for their "transparency!"
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Commonground
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Why would the "Local Community" refuse their visit? And why don't the authorities have precedence over the "community"?
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It certainly feeds MY paranoia!
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Commonground
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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Mine too. The more I think about it. I don't buy it.
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Especially since the WHO has been obsessively careful about not announcing anything without consulting the "host" government.
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So the avian flu is in pigs. That was expected or feared, has happened before, not a good sign.
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Commonground
Adviser Group Joined: March 06 2006 Status: Offline Points: 262 |
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It's now 2 hours since I read the article and I am no more reassured. I don't buy the fact that the "local community" had the authority to send the WHO Team away. I keep visualizing the last scene in that blasted Bird Flu Movie, where the CDC shows up in the tiny village, everyone dead. My logic tells me that they found something they didn't want to disclose for reasons of "panic" and that this was the best BS story they could come up with. The "local community" sent them away!!!
So, anyone out there want to offer me some logic to counter my increasing anxiety on this Friday?????? |
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Fluinformer
Experienced Member Joined: May 19 2006 Status: Offline Points: 15 |
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More information from Metro TV Online
Automatic translation of http://www.metrotvnews.com/berita.asp?id=16986 with http://www.toggletext.com/kataku_trial.php It seems as the WHO representatives were not allowed to enter the hot area. Translation follws: "After being refused in Medan, North Sumatra, Jum'at (19/5) this, two officials from Orgasnisasi the Health of the World (WHO) shifted the visit target. Both of them descended to East Java. This was done after being found by the sufferer suspect bird flu that died in Surabaya and one patient that currently still are treated in Doctor's regional Public Hospital (RSUD) Soetomo, Surabaya. As being reported beforehand, the case of the bird flu patient in Surabaya struck Lily (38 years), the citizen Pucang Young Ii the number 27 Surabaya. Lily died last May 11 after he was treated for three days in the Hospital of RKZ Surabaya. In the meantime, last Wednesday (17/5), Doctor's Public Hospital of Soetomo Surabaya received a patient of bird flu of case reconciliation was named Anang Prasetyo (18 years). This patient was reconciled by the regional Public Hospital of the Kediri City. According to Doctor Teguh, the doctor that handled Anang, the condition for the patient at this time was critical. Anang was treated in Anaesthesia Space and got help of breathing." |
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So now the WHO is announcing that the pigs did not test positive for
H5N1 while the Indonesian authorities are saying that they tested
positive for H5N1 antibodies.
One group is still in the coverup stage and the other is openly admitting that Bird Flu is in pigs. They need to get their Sichuan Sheet together. |
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Commonground
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I am also getting increasingly alarmed that they won't update this site. It will be two weeks today. They had better update it today or tomorrow, because I monitor this for pneumonia statistics in our country. I feel this is one way to watch for abnoralities. And now I can't even do that!!! More anxiety. Going shopping for a pair of sneakers.
http://wonder.cdc.gov/mmwr/mmwrmort.asp |
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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I certainly hope that thisis not true:
"The team's three doctors of the handling of this WHO bird flu visited the Land Regency Karo on Thursday morning by being accompanied by the official of the North Sumatran Health of the Service. However, their visit was cancelled because of being refused by the local community"
Let's hope it is not history repeating itself:
October 25, 2005
"THE WASHINGTON POST
.....In an interview with The Washington Post this spring, Tri Satya Putri Naipospos, Indonesia's national director of animal health, first disclosed that officials had known chickens were dying from bird flu since the middle of 2003, but kept this secret until last year because of lobbying by the poultry industry. She also revealed that the government had not set aside any money this year to vaccinate poultry against the virus, though officials had trumpeted this as the centerpiece of their strategy to contain the disease. Naipospos repeated her allegations late last month, but this time in Indonesian in an interview with the influential local newspaper Kompas. A day after the article was published, the Agriculture Ministry fired her.
Naipospos alleged that bird flu has never been a priority in the Agriculture Ministry. "They could not see the potential threat until there was an actual threat," she said in an interview with The Post last week. "I talked to the minister about it many times. He said a disease outbreak is not a national emergency, not a disaster."
Agriculture Minister Anton Apriyantono said the Indonesian government considers bird flu a matter of great concern. Every morning, he said, he files a report with President Susilo Bambang Yudhoyono on efforts to battle the disease.
"That means our attention is very high on how to address this problem," the minister said during an interview in his office. "The thing is, we don't want to publicize too much about bird flu because of the effect on our farms. Prices have dropped very drastically."
Apriyantono said he fired Naipospos because he was not happy with her handling of bird flu and her working relationship with top ministry officials.
When the virus first appeared in Indonesia in the summer of 2003, government officials were divided over whether the sudden death of hens on a commercial farm on Java island was caused by bird flu or a less virulent ailment, Newcastle disease.
Nidom, a professor at Indonesia's Airlangga University, was called in. Within two months, he said his laboratory research had determined that the ailment was indeed bird flu, and was genetically related to a strain found seven years earlier in southern China.
But the owners of major poultry companies, who have personal ties to senior Agriculture Ministry officials, insisted that any containment efforts be done secretly, Naipospos recalled.
These eight farming conglomerates, which handle 60 percent of the country's poultry, feared that publicity would harm sales of chicken and eggs. Offering new details in her interview last week, Naipospos said owners even lobbied Indonesia's president at the time, Megawati Sukarnoputri. "They said: `It's better to do it with confidentiality. Do a hidden, silent operation'," Naipospos recounted. "I said, `It won't work if you do a silent operation. This is a disease that can't be hidden. It's too risky'."
In late January 2004, Nidom broke ranks and announced his findings to the Indonesian media. A day later, the Agriculture Ministry confirmed the bird flu outbreak. But the disease had already spread across Java and on to Bali and Sumatra islands.
"It was too late. The virus was everywhere," Nidom recalled.
Last fall, with human cases mounting in Vietnam and Thailand, Nidom was growing increasingly nervous about the prospect of the epidemic spreading to Indonesians. He arranged an October conference at his university to examine bird flu and invited four of the world's premier influenza researchers from the United States, Japan, Hong Kong and mainland China.
Shortly before its scheduled start, a senior agriculture official contacted the head of Nidom's institute and demanded that foreign participants and all media be banned, according to Yoes Prijatna Dachlan, chairman of the university's Tropical Disease Center. Dachlan rejected the conditions and canceled the gathering. Nidom said officials threatened to have police break up the conference if it proceeded.
Apriyantono said in the interview that he was unfamiliar with the incident, but that Indonesia was open to foreign researchers. Through this summer, avian flu continued to spread, often unreported, and containment efforts remained unfunded. The disease reached two-thirds of the country's provinces. Then in July, a man and his two daughters in an affluent Jakarta suburb died of respiratory disease. The father tested positive as the country's first bird flu victim. Health investigators concluded that his daughters likely died of the same cause.
Responding to public anxiety, Apriyantono went on television to oversee the culling of several dozen pigs and ducks on a farm 15 kilometers away.
But when the cameras left, the campaign stalled. Officials backed away from a vow to kill about 200 swine in the immediate area. Thousands of chickens, identified by health experts as the leading suspects in the outbreak, escaped slaughter.
As suspected human cases mounted last month, government officials said they would take extraordinary measures. Apriyantono announced that he was changing course and would order a mass slaughter of poultry in any area declared highly infected.
But, one month later, Apriyantono acknowledged that he had yet to define such an area. As a result, he has now directed that culling be limited to the specific property where an infection is detected and that neighboring birds be spared. " |
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Have they found any pigs with ACTIVE infection, or just antibodies? What's even more maddening than people trying to cover their "ass-ets" is that even if the WHO were able to get info on strains/sequences and match them up with sources, we may not find out for weeks/months......
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pugmom
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 415 |
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I read this quote as tests of all the blood, waste. and saliva of the POULTRY came out negative. No mention of pigs in this article. In my readings last night I read that the antibody-positive swine had no clinical symptoms, were not ill at all.
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jpc
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Go to this thread and read my posts... I documented quite of bit of background infor regarding H5N1 positive pigs in Sumatra and Java
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This is all rather time consuming, additional time I have put into researching number of WHO's reported cases, often conflict in amount and number of positives. Suddenly clusters which were confirmed in earlier reports have suddenly been pronounced negative. This is very odd. We look to WHO, at least I do, to be an international responsible organization to verify these outbreaks and also a facility to warn the world as to their seriousness. Also the group "dinner" scenario seems to have a number of inconsistencies as well. Bluntly you don't declare cases positive, and then "take it back." |
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Scotty
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I bet that WHO were really gutted. They must have been really looking forward to getting up close and personal with the worlds next killer virus. Must have just ruined their day.
Helicopter grounded due to bad weather? They didn't actually get off that bus either, did they? |
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janetn
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The problem is that the locals dont want their livestock killed [culled] apparently they would rather die of BF
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Jhetta
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Another article POSTED BY NZ er Written by THE WASHINGTON POST
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/14617804.htm
"WHO officials dispatched a pair of investigators from its Jakarta office to northern Sumatra last week, but their initial efforts were stymied by relatives' reluctance to discuss the cases because they were distraught. The second team, which arrived Thursday, included a senior epidemiologist from the organization's global headquarters in Geneva and investigators from the Centers for Disease Control in Atlanta and WHO's regional office in New Delhi." |
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NZ er
Adviser Group Joined: March 27 2006 Location: New Zealand Status: Offline Points: 329 |
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Story on what locals think about people comming into their village."VOWING to turn them away"
http://www.thejakartapost.com/detailheadlines.asp?fileid=20060519.@01&irec=1
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Land of the Long White Cloud
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ya and take us with them...................
anyone remember the opening scene in the movie
"outbreak"
not to sound callus but how do you fight ignorance like that?
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WHO Probes Bird Flu Cluster
Signs of Human Transmission Sought in Indonesian Deaths By Alan Sipress
JAKARTA, Indonesia, May 18 -- An international team of health investigators arrived on the Indonesian island of Sumatra on Thursday to determine whether an unusually large cluster of human bird flu cases indicates that the highly lethal virus has mutated into a form easily spread among people. Laboratory tests conducted for the World Health Organization confirmed this week that five members of one extended family in Kubu Sembilang village had died of bird flu during the first two weeks of May and a sixth had been infected but was recovering. A seventh family member, a 37-year-old woman who had been the first to fall ill, is also suspected of succumbing to the disease but was buried before samples could be taken. The Sumatran cluster is the world's largest since the disease emerged in East Asia in 2003, although several dozen others have been reported. Any cluster raises the prospect that the virus has undergone genetic change allowing it to spread more readily among people, increasing the likelihood of a global pandemic. WHO dispatched two investigators from its Jakarta office to northern Sumatra last week, but their initial efforts were stymied by distraught relatives' reluctance to discuss the cases. A second team, which arrived Thursday, included a senior epidemiologist from WHO's headquarters in Geneva and investigators from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta and WHO's regional office in New Delhi. "We are taking this very seriously," said Sari Setiogi, spokeswoman for WHO's Indonesia office. "The good news is that from our investigation to date, there's no evidence of further spread of the virus beyond the family." Setiogi said that relatives, neighbors and health-care workers who treated the patients were being monitored and that none had shown influenza-like symptoms. Influenza specialists have said they suspect human transmission played a role in several other clusters of infection, including instances in Thailand, Vietnam and elsewhere in Indonesia. But the disease has yet to demonstrate it can pass beyond the confines of a family, which would be necessary for bird flu to spark a global epidemic. The source of the Sumatra outbreak remains unclear. Health officials said that they had heard a report of sick chickens near one of the victims' homes but that tests of poultry and other livestock in the village had failed to identify any infected animals. Agriculture Minister Anton Apriyantono said Thursday, however, that samples taken from chickens, ducks and pigs from the surrounding district had tested positive for exposure to bird flu. Some Indonesian health officials have speculated that the afflicted family members, who lived near each other in four houses, had contracted the virus either by sharing a feast of infected chicken and pork or from contaminated manure. Health Minister Siti Fadilah Supari minimized the possibility that the virus had spread from one family member to another. If they had all caught bird flu from the same contaminated source, the victims would have been expected to become sick within the normal incubation period for the disease, which at most is slightly more than one week. But the final victim, a toddler, became ill after that, raising the possibility that the virus was passed between relatives. Nur Rasyid Lubis, who heads the bird flu prevention team at Adam Malik Hospital in North Sumatra, said five members of the family, including at least two children, were admitted at the same time on May 8 with fever and respiratory problems. X-rays showed symptoms of pneumonia. They all died over the following week. Lubis reported that all seven victims from the family were related to one another by blood rather than through marriage, reinforcing the suspicions of some influenza specialists that genetic susceptibility could play a role in determining who catches bird flu. The Sumatra cases and a separate fatal infection confirmed this week in Surabaya, Indonesia's second-largest city, increased the country's death toll from the disease to at least 30. Bird flu has infected more than 216 people worldwide, killing more than half. |
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Raven
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Hard choice...starve or at least know you and your children will have 100% chance of going hungry when the animals are killed...or face the posibility of BF. |
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No spare room filled with preparations, no spare food, no way to feed your family, .... Possibility verses a sure starvation death, what would I do?
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Annie, that's it in a nut-shell.
PREP ON!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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lolo88
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I work for a large govt agency. I worked on our pandemic plan (such as it is). It is not some insidious plan to overtake the common man. It's an attempt at protecting our employees and the American public to the best of our ability - with no vaccine, little anti-virals, and an almost infinite number of variables to try to address. Your Pastor is full of crap. The govt may be many things, but it is certainly not this. Inefficient, strangled by its own red tape maybe, but the men and women who labor every day are not evil robots, tools of some sick psycho fantasy. They're your neighbors, who are working hard and trying to pay the mortgage just like you. They will be just as affected as everyone else.
FEMA happens to be in my state this week, trying to assist the people who were flooded out of their homes.
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quietprepr
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I agree with you lolo. I work for a mid-size federal agency and there are no conspiracies here. Just a bunch of people trying to pay their bills and hoping they don't get laid off. Just like alot of other people in this country. Red tape? Yes! Evil conspirators....Gimme a break!!! I can tell you that of the people I work with, none would carry out any illegal request nor sit silently by while others did. We are your neighbors and trying to raise our families...we are not flying around in the middle of the night in white UN helicopters trying to see who has things we can confiscate. This whole situation is scary enough without this type of nonsense.
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"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming
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quietprepr
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That is the one thing I agree with wholeheartedly...time is running out.
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"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival." - W. Edwards Deming
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I totally agree. We have a very useful and productive website here which is a great source of information and cooperation around the globe. The last thing we need in here is major anti-government posting which is a complete diversion of the focus, handling and dealing with Bird Flu.
If you start getting off track into some type of confrontation with U.S. troops attempting to take everyone's weapons away, setting up some sort of secret Gestapo force and so forth, you are going to create a situation where an intelligent exchange of information and news site, becomes an Anti-American and anti-government site. Be realistic. If we have a limited number of outbreaks and we can contain the clusters, people are not going to have the personal freedom to leave the quarantine areas. If you scare people by telling them their guns will be taken away, their only defene against looters and areas which cannot be sufficiently protected, you are going to cause serious problems. I truly think this is a sick psycho fantasy. Understand that if we have people infected and only a few, they must be contained. If poultry are infected with the virus they must be destroyed. I am sure Homeland is making efforts to train personnel to make difficult situaitons less inflammatory. Depending on the scope of the Pandemic, the idea is to retain social order as long as possible. It is a delicate balance. If too many freedoms are taken away and people become arfaid of the government (as when the patients in Indonesia ran away refused treatment) you will have a total social collapse. Misinformation is the greatest enemy. Understand that one must be realistic in terms of asking someone to go into a quarantined area to die. As long as everyone sticks to the truth, then we may make it through. This is truly a new time of history when we have the internet. I think the article is probably garbage - but it is nonetheless scary. It is not unrealistic, whatever the best intentions of health people, I am one, martial law is the beginnning of chaos. Each to his own. |
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Jhetta
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Hitech,
I have read most of you post and they all have a anarchists flavor... we are here to find solutions regarding H5N1.
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redcloud
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Dax,
Of course we've been lied to. That is the business of government. An important thing to keep in mind, however, is that unless the troops carrying out hitech's tinfoil hat scenario, as well as their commanders all the way up the chain, have access to some double secret fantasy vaccine, they are going to be in the same boat as the rest of us. One can't stay in Level 4 containment forever, especially in the field. At some point, those soldiers will have to take a breath of unfiltered air, and then they are just like us - UNPROTECTED. I'd be worrying more about laying in firewood for next winter, if I were you. |
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If all is not lost, where is it?
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Jhetta
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"I'd be worrying more about laying in firewood for next winter, if I were you."
Pretty much where I am at this point....
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Jhetta
Valued Member Joined: March 28 2006 Status: Offline Points: 1272 |
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Sooo... Where are your documented facts... lets start with your 1918 reconstruction theory
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hitech,
I'd like to give you some benefit of the doubt, but read your last post. It's hard to take you serious when you make accusations like that. Can you show us some evidence to back up your statements? You are demonizing alot of people without any proof.
"Demonization is what PROPAGANDISTS use when they can't refute FACTS."
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Oh boy! To me this sounds a little bit out in "far out there right field." When my foster kids played T-ball, some of them were not very athletically inclined or motivated, and frequently were placed in "far out there right field." That is the additional position beyond right fielder that was created for kids who didn't have a clue about what was happening in a ball game. (I signed them up because I figured a little exposure without pressure might help them later in school when they might have to play an organized sport in their PE class.) I noted that the vast majority of the kids thus assigned whiled away their time looking at the grass, or butterflies, or the sky, or the bugs on their shoes. They would occasionally be awakened to the reality of the game when people started screaming, "Pick up the ball and throw it back in!" Where-upon, they would look quickly around them to see where the ball was (Occasionally it was at their feet.), pick it up and frantically throw it in the general direction of the pitcher. They would then return to looking at the grass/butterflies/sky/bugs and all would be right with the world. Though I agree with you that Dubya has made many, many mistakes; let me point out that he has tried to get the ball back to the pitcher. He is free to leave the game after his term of office is over and he will be under no pressure from me to have to play again. The exposure has done him a world of good. |
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DAX COM
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redcloud
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Am I missing something here?
So, this is what all this was about? Your freakin website? Parasite. |
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If all is not lost, where is it?
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[QUOTE=Commonground]Why would the "Local Community" refuse their visit? And why don't the authorities have precedence over the "community"?
This is axactly my point to....Why is it they have the right to refuse....
or for that matter ...
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Prospective : I have been to scenes of major disasters and worked with disaster victims. In the case of a relatively bad Pandemic, we will have the health professionals working with us, private citizens we can give a crash course on using what abilities or resources they have to save lives, and it is possible that social order as we know it will collapse. It would be better of course if the Pandemic never comes. That is unlikely. Since it is probable it will, there must be plans in place which are in place to respond as quickly as possible to contain whatever outbreaks there are in the U.S. to prevent it from becoming a Pandemic. If you personally are a medical person or have taken care of someone who is ill as well as dealt with the family of that person who may be ill themselves, you will understand we must focus on personally being cognizant the first priority is to save as many lives as possible, and try to organize and distribute our resources and the personnel we have in the most effective way. I do not accept the theory that this is a government created epidemic to gain some type of sweeping power aimed at stripping anyone of their basic rights. I do not think this is a consipiracy, but rather all agencies, Homeland Security, FBI, FEMA, and even the president are seriously concerned that we are not in a position to be sure how severe the problem will be and how severe the measures will be necessary to stop it. Many people will not want to be quarantined even if they knew they could spread the disease further and cause the the death of millions. Choices will need to be made on who receives whatever vaccine we have. This may result in a battlefield triage mentality. That is, if you use huge amounts of resources on those seriously ill verus spreading those same resources over a much larger group of people, you will reduce the number of deaths. Having had AIDS patients and also many individuals with highly communicable diseases, I know we will face issues as they did in the hospital in New Orleans where you had persons who were on respirators, who had to be hand bagged, and placed an incredible burden on already exhausted and sometimes even infected staff. 911 was not staged. It was a tragic event in which many thousands of lives were lost letting us know that our country is now vulnerable to attack in a war which has no front or uniformed soldiers. We may never have the open and assumed freedoms that were possible before 911 as long as there is a need to protect our country and empower those who must make every effort to do so. |
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Nothing tin-foil-ish about this:
Genetic Warfare - The "Ethnic Bullet" By IsraelWire Tue March 14, 1996 issue of the Foreign Report quoted the former head of Sweden's defense research establishment, General Bo Rybeck, as saying that genetic weapons might be around the corner. Thus, a mixture of influenza or diphtheria could be
designed
to affect only blacks, a designer toxin could be aimed at Serbs or people with blue eyes might be given Alzheimer's disease. As far as he knew, no government was developing genetic weapons, Rybeck said.
They are suggesting only certain familial or genetic blood lines are are risk.
or this:
Gen. Franks Doubts Constitution Will Survive WMD Attack
John O. Edwards, NewsMax.com Gen. Tommy Franks says that if the United States is hit with a weapon of mass destruction that inflicts large casualties, the Constitution will likely be discarded in favor of a military form of government
or this:
Halliburton Subsidiary Gets Contract to Add Temporary Immigration Detention Centers
I don't think these US detention centers are for the Mexicans......... |
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redcloud
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I have to go to Walmart right now. That is nightmare enough.
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If all is not lost, where is it?
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redcloud
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Man, you are ***sed. I don't trust the government either, and I'm sure there are monstrous crimes being commited, but what can I do about it? For that matter, what can YOU do about it? Zip. Nada. Nuthin. I'm just trying to keep my head down and stay alive. Can we just talk about the flu? Red |
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If all is not lost, where is it?
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ShaRenKa
Valued Member Joined: May 17 2006 Location: United States Status: Offline Points: 301 |
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So very true Hitech, Fema has been underhanded since the day it was thought up, I agree!Their main purpose at first was constructing several prisons in nearly every state, and filling them with supplies....for what!? BUT! The Avian flu IS real. |
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Sha Ren Ka
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